Major Ploprof Issue

[sfa437]

How about pressing in the MG one and then using the UV glue to affix the sapphire?

The MG gets preloaded and you drop the sapphire over it.

Might be worth a shot.....

[offshore]

@sfa,

The sapph is still too tight to "drop" in, so I can see excess UV all over the place if I try to press it onto UV.

O/S

[MADRED7]

And how about sanding down the retaining ring or using one that is thinner or has a different material that allows the crystals to expand?

Theo

[offshore]

A quick update.

First thanks to those who have contributed various thoughts and ideas.

Unfortunately I am still at a loss as to where to now take this one right now.

I have thought at length about the issue, and received much input from others who are knowledgeable in these things, and I am continually lead to believe that the issue is connected with the tolerances in the engineering between the case, the crystal sealing ring, and the crystal.

Simply, the crystal is too big for the hole into which it fits.

Once the case heats or cools and expands/contracts, the crystal (or the lower mineral glass section) moves, and the upper sapphire section doesn't.

Creating a shear effect.

There are many options to fix the issue, however as this is a new offering, I would hope that finally the situation will be resolved by the manufacturers, ( Both case, crystal and assemblers)

The easy and best answer is a new crystal smaller in diameter, IMHO.

Whether that is a solid, (either sapphire- ??? cost) (Mineral- ?? Not as acceptable) or another laminated version, rests with those who build these things.

For those trying to repair their own, I would think a 288 or maybe 287 @ 4.5 thick is the answer.

I am tempted to construct and install a 288 from 1.5 and 3.0 MG crystals as a test.

However this won't answer the question of dissimilar materials.

With no immediate access to a 1.5 sapphire @ 288, we cannot "test" this theory properly.

Even if we had them, we don't really know the exact original lamination methods, so our test crystal may still be found wanting.

I am reliably informed that some dealers are no longer offering this item due to the large % of complaints/returns.

Unfortunately (and I am guessing here) we may find that the cases returned may simply be fitted with another (same) crystal and returned to the owners. (With the inevitable repeat failures) Some dealers are supplying replacements, but we do not know exactly what these are. (Read - are they also just the same? Probably).

My guess is this has been a fairly large production run.

So there have been a large quantity of crystals commissioned.

Which (unfortunately ) WILL be used.

Maybe the best hope is for high volumes of sales in the "retail" market, to dispose of these. ( Pity the poor guy buying one on the street!)

I am also reliably informed that there are no immediate plans for another run of different crystals, or in the foreseeable future.

And certainly not for a 4.5 thick sapphire!

Methinks the manufacturers right now, just want it to go away.

And it won't.

So until we get some more information, or someone comes up with an answer, I don't have one.

I will probably build a 288 - all MG this week, and fit it.

However, even if this works, it doesn't finally answer the question/problem.

But may be at best a short term fix. (Or I may sand the existing laminated crystal back...but as it has already sheared to a degree, any result may be inconclusive)

I suppose if we get a replacement, and sand it back to +/- 288 and install, and it doesn't fail, we may have an answer.

So many questions...so little time~!

Offshore

[krpster]

Thanks for all the effort O/S. Without being able to remove the bezel really eliminates a lot of options. Ultimately comes down to crystal size as you say. I would imagine that many would chose the solid MG if it becomes an available option. Alternatively sanding down the original prior to use may be a good way to go too (for those that haven't delamed yet).

[mastrmindalliance]

My new plop and replacement crystal has arrived (neither are delammed that i can see).

OS, I will give you a buzz in the morn as I have company atm.

In the meantime, any suggestions as to how I should store the spare crystal? (not sure if airtight and dry bag is way to go...

oh, for those interested, Josh's 21j has the case stampings missing from the more expensive models, but the finishing isn't as good around the crownguard. Could just be a one off though as it's very neat on my other - the one ^^OS has - it's Josh's asian eta clone.

Also has all the same trimmings as the more expensive one, without the stem/date problem.

Chat in morning A!

Edit - fcuking love this watch!

[marinamm20]

still waiting to get my watch problem resolved - it is confirmed that they have recieved it.

now i have to wait to get the ploprof replaced - wait wait wait - i am not good at waiting.

[sfa437]

Well Alan I got my crystal press (VERY good buy) and slapped together a 3.0 and 1.5 MG.

Right now I got it seated in the case and the watch put back together. Of course there's a teeny tiny smudge on the inside of the effing crystal Never fails!

I took a slightly different tack on the problem though.....

I lightly sanded the edges once the UV glue hardened. I then took a bead of Hypo around the join and did a putty knife impression with a razor. I then sanded again lightly.

Prior to installation I VERY lightly greased not only the gasket but the sidewalls of the case. Crystal pressed in with a tad less effort than it took to get it out (1" dowel and a claw hammer). Haven't tested for water resistance yet- kinda scared to

[sfa437]

double post

Edited July 7, 2010 by sfa437

[MilSub]

Have anyone had any success separationg the sapphire from the mg? I have three crystals now and I'm thinking I could make a three layer sapphire crystal from them and see if it'll work.

[FDG]

Hi all,

Just saw the pictures of this problem with the crystals.

In my town there is a factory which produces sapphire crystals with double AR.

I can contact them to make a batch of crystals for the PloProf.

Those who are interested, contact me.

All the best,

Fred

[offshore]

Have anyone had any success separationg the sapphire from the mg? I have three crystals now and I'm thinking I could make a three layer sapphire crystal from them and see if it'll work.

I tried soaking in acetone, and then tried water. To no avail, except the delam disappeared!

I believe sfa got his apart, although it had already delaminated pretty badly, and he damaged the MG in doing so.

Haven't heard of any other succesful separations.

Just saw the pictures of this problem with the crystals.

In my town there is a factory which produces sapphire crystals with double AR.

I can contact them to make a batch of crystals for the PloProf.

Those who are interested, contact me.

@Fred,

It will be interesting to see what price you are offered on an all sapphire!

The other question to still be answered is as to what size it needs to be.

If the factory would do 1 offs, some experimentation would be in order.

O/S

[FDG]

I tried soaking in acetone, and then tried water. To no avail, except the delam disappeared!

I believe sfa got his apart, although it had already delaminated pretty badly, and he damaged the MG in doing so.

Haven't heard of any other succesful separations.

@Fred,

It will be interesting to see what price you are offered on an all sapphire!

The other question to still be answered is as to what size it needs to be.

If the factory would do 1 offs, some experimentation would be in order.

O/S

They do do 1 offs. If you tell me the size I can make an inquiry based on lets say 20 crystals?

[offshore]

My gut feeling is that a 288 is the way to go, (the existing is 289, but it is extremely tight) although if it was a 1 piece a 289 would probably be fine. Either way it shouldn't alter the price much if anything, and we will have better answers within a day or two.

O/S

Edit: Thats 28.8 mm OD.

[G.Curcio]

I am now becoming more persuaded, that Nanug's theory, of excessive loadings on a 2 part crystal, during temperature changes , may have some validity. The extremely tight fit of the MG portion of the crystal and the variation in diameters is what leads me back to this idea..

I can only give my experience with the delamination on my crystal. There was no temp change greater than +/- 2 or 3 degrees when this happened. This is purely the result of humidity as I knew not to get it wet or bring it in direct contact with water from sfa's post. IMO it is a failure of the adhesive between the two crystals and not due to temp changes. BTW: the delamination started at the left of the crystal and worked it's way to the right. As can be seen from the pics it did not complete it's course completely. The rainbow effect at the ridge of where it stopped advancing imo shows that the culprit is water/humidity and a failure of the adhesive between the two crystals.

Edited July 8, 2010 by G.Curcio

[FDG]

I will hear from them within 1 to 3 days. I shall post a new topic when I have more information.

Also, they will sent me a prototype crystal to see if it will fit. However I don't have a PloProf..

[pompe]

This is starting to sound interesting, put me on the list for a crystal if they don't get to be to expensive. So far mu ploprof has held up fine. I bought it with the intent to waterproof it and use for freediving, guess that is out of the question now :-(

btw am i the only one that could live with a 5mm plexi crystal ? scratches, big deal there is a reason polywatch exists ;-)

[Mikey2008]

I got a quote for a double-AR, flat sapphire crystal 28.8mm x 4.5mm. Price was around $30-$35 a piece, however minimum order was around 200pcs. It'll cost around $42 for 100pcs. I don't think they'll be demand for 100 pcs.

I've not asked about a 20pcs run, but guess it'll be $50+ if I can convince the manufacturer to accept the order.

Are we sure the factories won't be fixing this as soon as possible? Toro has advertised a ploprof+SS strap with sapphire crystal. Maybe its fixed?!

I think this design for a replacement crystal would be cool:

[MilSub]

I just love how the rep community is working together to fix this problem.

[sfa437]

Well my method seems to have worked.

Took it onto my diving board and tossed it into the deep end of the pool for an hour, dredged it out and it's fine- no delam issues. For s**ts and giggles I also tossed it into the output strainer basket on the pool filter for 30 min with no ill effects (25 psi and rushing water).

Might not be correct (flat xtal) but it looks pretty damn good and keeps the water out.

Win in my book

[Mikey2008]

I'm thinking about getting a sample crystal made this week to the spec in my picture above. Do you guys know if the AR coat should be clear or purple-ish (like the planet ocean)?

[G.Curcio]

I'm thinking about getting a sample crystal made this week to the spec in my picture above. Do you guys know if the AR coat should be clear or purple-ish (like the planet ocean)?

Mikey, I came across these photos of a Gen Ploprof. If I'm not wrong the xtal is completely flat and not domed at all.

this is the best pic I came across, i believe the AR is only on the underside of the xtal

[Jkay]

In your second photo, the ploprof UNDER the first one has a recessed, domed crystal. I assume we're looking at 2 different generations of watch in that picture.

[G.Curcio]

In your second photo, the ploprof UNDER the first one has a recessed, domed crystal. I assume we're looking at 2 different generations of watch in that picture.

Absolutely! In the second pic the Ploprof 1200 is being compared to the original Ploprof 600, which can also be determined by the difference in crown guards design.

[marsupilami]

none of the crystals is domed. I have a genuine ploprof 600 crystal here. totally flat.