panerai153 Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 I'm pretty keen on a DSN PAM submersible. Actually, I have been looking for a really good rep of the submersible for quite a long time. All of the previous that I saw were pretty weak copies. From what i'm reading, it looks like the DSN models are pretty good and with a minimum of modding, they will be really good. I'm torn between the 024A and the 024D. my question is from looking at the photos,are the weaknesses and strengths basically the same? In other words will a date wheel change, a better crown and possibly a jakob caseback solve the problems of both of them are there problems that one has that the other one doesn't? It's been a long time since I had any PAMS, and I'm just getting back into them, so any help from all of you PAM experts would be appreciated thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesd Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 The major flaws are still there in both versions (Date wheel, cyclops, crown, CG and lugs). It comes down to what you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 The major flaws are still there in both versions (Date wheel, cyclops, crown, CG and lugs). It comes down to what you prefer. so the watch is a big flaw? if you gone get it right you need better case,better dw,better cyclop,better crown,better cg and diffrent lugs? seems a lot of work and $$ to do all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesd Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Not totally. You can't replace the case to fix the lugs, so you basically work with what you have there. Nothing really needs replaced, but if you are nitpicking everything and want the best, then you'd upgrade the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 my plan is to make a 199-24a hybrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 my plan is to make a 199-24a hybrid will the parts from the 199 go together whit a dsn watch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Padge Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 I heard DSN was going to change the cyclops for a smaller one in the next run? All you really need is an upgraded thicker date wheel, a new CG and T48 crown...... I like the look of the 25D, due to the ti case and superlumed dial/hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Dani, My guess is as good as yours at this point because I don't have DSN's 24a or a cartel 199. I would also have to get my 199 with a 6mm cyclops which may not be available anymore, it was a blunder from the factory and later models came with correct 7mm cyclops. I know what I need from DSN in order to make a 199 into a 24A. In the event the operation fails my contingency plan is the 24D caseback. Other than that the rest will be easy. The work scope flow is like this: a) DSN - 24A handstack, dial b ) DSN - 24A bezel with ratchet c) DSN - 24A caseback d) DSN - 24D caseback a0) Cartel 199G complete watch a1) Cartel 199G bezel b1) Cartel 199G handstack, dial c1) Cartel 199G caseback d1) Cartel 199G crystal If ((a0 - a1) + b )) = then ((a0 - a1 - b1 - c1) + a + b + c)) + strip A/R on d1 + good CG + Palp deep dish crown + good DW = Grail 24A else ((a0 - b1 - c1) + a + d)) + keep A/R on d1 + good CG + Palp deep dish crown + good DW = Grail 24D P.S. I actually thought this through back in November 2009 when I learned DSN was going to make a 24A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Panerai153 The watches are pretty similar the parts are probably the same.its up to you if you want the Marks on the Bezel. Either one will be a joy to own I'm sure, I'm much more keen on the 24a but that's because I've been lusting after that shiney deco bezel for ages. The lugs may be a tad of an issue if you're wanting an extra thick strap. I have this really thick Simona which I was hoping to put a Sub on and that may not be possible. We can only hope that somebody gets hold of one soon and post a nice review and doesn't feel to intimidated by people slagging off a perfectly nice watch and raining on their parade. Its a 320 dollar rep and DSN's are pretty good value as far as I can tell and given that there are no other choices let's just enjoy these offerings. Its really sad unless its perfect it should be considered unworthy and inferior. I joined RWG to play with Replica watches, its replica it comes with flaws its your choice how much they bother you as no one will care or know but you. I hope I can afford the 24a one day and I will be in no rush to get it modded and I will try not to let the party poopers get to me. If you get one I do hope you can post it up and let me know how it works for you. ST4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMM Posted July 28, 2010 Report Share Posted July 28, 2010 Biggest additional flaw on the 24D is the rings around the markers. That didn't come until F series. Some of the Fs had T-dials (transitional year), so other than the caseback it would be correct for a 24F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 EMM, small correction T dials on 24 extended well into G year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMM Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Huh. I've seen a 24F with an L dial. Was that some sort of factory replacement deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanya Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Crown is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to close to the case as well. Not a problem for Kbiz and The Zigmeister who can and have machined OEM style tubes but for me it's a problem. You could I suppose double up the crown gasket and use a butthair longer stem but that isn't an ideal solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Huh. I've seen a 24F with an L dial. Was that some sort of factory replacement deal? It's possible, but yes, 24 is one of the longest running T dials upstaged only by 243 'I' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMM Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 Crown is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to close to the case as well. Not a problem for Kbiz and The Zigmeister who can and have machined OEM style tubes but for me it's a problem. You could I suppose double up the crown gasket and use a butthair longer stem but that isn't an ideal solution Is that something that can be fixed by the tube that you can get with T's SL crowns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 I owned a gen 24D which had metal rings around the markers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 this is correct. also the 25D. rolli I owned a gen 24D which had metal rings around the markers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 rolli, can you point me to a 25D with rings, all of the ones I'm finding have no rings. That of course doesn't meant that there isnt't one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolli Posted July 29, 2010 Report Share Posted July 29, 2010 i have many pictures with the 025D here one with caseback maybe both versions. rolli rolli, can you point me to a 25D with rings, all of the ones I'm finding have no rings. That of course doesn't meant that there isnt't one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SERGEANT_AT_ARMS Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 25D was a transitional year where both dials were produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMM Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 W0lf, Do you think there's any chance the 199 cartel crystal fits the 24a DSN case? Wouldn't that be easier than switching bezels? Or does the cartel 199 have enough better case shape? Dani, My guess is as good as yours at this point because I don't have DSN's 24a or a cartel 199. I would also have to get my 199 with a 6mm cyclops which may not be available anymore, it was a blunder from the factory and later models came with correct 7mm cyclops. I know what I need from DSN in order to make a 199 into a 24A. In the event the operation fails my contingency plan is the 24D caseback. Other than that the rest will be easy. The work scope flow is like this: a) DSN - 24A handstack, dial b ) DSN - 24A bezel with ratchet c) DSN - 24A caseback d) DSN - 24D caseback a0) Cartel 199G complete watch a1) Cartel 199G bezel b1) Cartel 199G handstack, dial c1) Cartel 199G caseback d1) Cartel 199G crystal If ((a0 - a1) + b )) = then ((a0 - a1 - b1 - c1) + a + b + c)) + strip A/R on d1 + good CG + Palp deep dish crown + good DW = Grail 24A else ((a0 - b1 - c1) + a + d)) + keep A/R on d1 + good CG + Palp deep dish crown + good DW = Grail 24D P.S. I actually thought this through back in November 2009 when I learned DSN was going to make a 24A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 it's all for the case, I'm not worried by the crystal especially since DSN will eventually correct it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMM Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 Assuming it fits, how hard is it to switch out the bezel? Never tried that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lf Posted July 30, 2010 Report Share Posted July 30, 2010 EMM, Me neither, the bezel+ratchet assembly transfer is likely to become a show-stopper. I know there was someone on this board (I think ChinkieChunkie) that replaced old cartel 24A bezel assembly with an OEM one so I know at least in theory it can be done. Can it be done in practice with DSN & Cartel parts - remains to be seen. Looking at DSN's midcase - it appears to be the same one or at least come from the same factory as all of his cases as of late. And though they have wonky lugs and somewhat incorrect proportions they take gen crystals and gen crownguards. It makes me somewhat more hopeful the Cartel 1:1 case might fit with his bezel. Either way, what the worst that can happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SERGEANT_AT_ARMS Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 It will be interesting to see Davidsens bezel construction. I will be removing the bezel on one of my 25A's coming in so I can hopfully provide some feedback soon. w0lf maybe we could meet up at Ed's shop and do it there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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