hackR Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 Hey Guys... been researching this question, but to no avail... 2824-2 is 4.6mm height 2836-2 is 5.06mm height what is the dial side to stem dimension difference?...is it the same and the difference in movement is made up on the rotor side?... what prompted this question is that the Breitling Swiss Steelfish had an early release with a 2824-2 movement...and then it came out with a 2836-2 movement...from all i see the cases are the same between these 2 models - and the rehauts seem to be the same height...if this is true, then is this ever so slight 0.46mm difference made up in the stem tube or is it simply made up on the rotor side of the movement?... my hunch is that the 0.46mm difference may be in the rotor side of the movement and the dial side to stem distance is the same... appreciate the information... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 I'll need to see if I can measure this later today. From experience, I can tell you that fitting a 2836-2 movement in a case meant for a 2824 results in the stem being offset towards the caseback side by (about) half a mm, so .46 seems right. You definitely want the stem centered, or you risk snapping stems (BTDT ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2010 thanks, R... this is intriguing me...as a Breitling collector, i know that both the steelfish and the old skool ti Seawolf came with either 2824-2 or 2836-2 movements...haven't seen any visual difference in the steelfish swiss cases - but don't have the two models to visually compare them...but i know, for sure, that the ti Seawolf only had one case, yet two movements...but an offset crown would be noticeable to screw down - and like you said, would bend the stem... hmmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted August 4, 2010 Report Share Posted August 4, 2010 I looked at all the documentation I have and I could not find that dimension referenced at all. Hmmmm indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2010 agreed, K...i checked the eta website and Dr. R's site...but no dimension on the drawings... but as a Breitling guy, too, you recall that both the fish and ti seawolf had both movements as options...it may not sound like a lot, but 0.46mm is actually a lot... on my ti seawolf - the movement is 2824-2 and there is a .46mm gap between the rehaut and the case...you have to look closely, but it's there...but with the 2836-2 movement versions, no gap (as i can see from pix)... we all also know that there was a limited - long since discontinued - version of the steelfish with 2824-2...all the current "swiss" versions are 2836-2...and from i have researched and seen, there's only one swiss case... hmmmm #2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted August 4, 2010 Report Share Posted August 4, 2010 I've swapped a couple of those movements back and forth and never found a problem. I always figured it was the spacer ring between the movement and dial was slightly different between the two. It would make sense since the datewheel on a 2836-2 is taller. But I've never really looked that close to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2010 good point, kbh...and thanks for weighing in... but is the datewheel 0.46mm taller?... also wondering what members do when they have a watch with existing spacer and movement and just want to do the movement swap...i haven't read that people search or improvise a new spacer ring...somehow this must work and/or create problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted August 4, 2010 Report Share Posted August 4, 2010 Without getting an exact size it looks like the 2824 datewheel is .5mm and the 2836 is .8mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2010 cool...that helps explain it... thanks!...R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted August 4, 2010 Report Share Posted August 4, 2010 Most of the time the .46mm can be compensated with the tube diameter. This does however result in a more stiff turning of the crown as the stem is pushed against the inner tube seal. I however find that it feels very gen-like that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 It actually makes more sense that the thickness difference is on the front side since the primary difference between the two movements is the day wheel. Probably they need just a hair more clearance on the front to clear the day jumper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 the difference is in the dial side. 2836-2 is taller on the dial side to compensate for the day function. As far as the date discs. the 2824-2 is flat and sits recessed in the main plate. The 2836-2 date disc has a step that raises the disc to sit flush with the day disc. The thickness with the step is 0.63 if I remember correctly. The measurements for both movements are in the ETA documentation. If you look at the drawings, the measurements are from center stem to dial seat. for the 2824-2, it is 1.80mm, for the 2836-2 it is 2.25mm. The difference is 0.45mm in thickness from the dial side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 this is really good stuff and info...thanks, guys... a potential swap out of the 2824-2 in my ti Seawolf for a 2836-2 would raise the rehaut toward the crystal and reduce the 0.46 gap i currently have...ever so small, i know its there... any recommendations on best source/price for a 2836-2 besides ofrei and cousinsuk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 Depending on how you mount the movement I can't see how the rehaut would be affected. If you use the same spacer from the 2836 to align the stem with the tube then the effect would be that the hands are closer to the dial. Alternatively if you keep the same spacer on the 2824 the effect would be misalignment of the stem in the tube. In either case I can't see how the movement would pull the rehaut away from the crystal. I suppose if the movement clamps somehow kept the position of the movement fixed within the case then I can see. But my impression of the movement case clamps was that they put pressure against the movement towards the case. Although I suppose this is strongly related to the shape of the clamps. Do you suppose that in the case of the 2824 the stem is actually pulling the movement/dial assembly away from the crystal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Yes...I think the stem is pulling the dial away from the movement as its setup now with the 2824... So if I assume the same stem position, I would think if the 2836 is 0.46mm thicker from center to dial side, then the dial/rehaut would close the gap... Am I missing something here? Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 The theory is sound. Only thing left to do is try. Aside from those you mentioned I have seen a few sellers on fleabay that routinely have movements for sale for decent prices. Although I have not bought from them so I cannot say for sure if they are good or not. I got a nice new 2824 from Ofrei but I did it when I needed a bunch of other things too. Bob is very helpful. Let us know how it works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 R- Sorry, sir. I have not had a chance to do any measuring, but it looks like others have answered your question As for the DW- Indeed, there is a pretty big difference in height between a 2836 and 2824: The 2824 is flat whereas the 2836 is raised at the ratchet teeth. Hope this helps... //ubi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 @Ubi -- awesome pix...thanks!... @krp -- agreed...all this info is great, but i need to see how this works by playing around...a lot of unfinished items on my bench, but i'll add this one to the list and let all know... awesome info guys...appreciate your insights...R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackR Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 @Ubi -- awesome pix...thanks!... @krp -- agreed...all this info is great, but i need to see how this works by playing around...a lot of unfinished items on my bench, but i'll add this one to the list and let all know... awesome info guys...appreciate your insights...R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 The theory is sound. Only thing left to do is try. Aside from those you mentioned I have seen a few sellers on fleabay that routinely have movements for sale for decent prices. Although I have not bought from them so I cannot say for sure if they are good or not. I got a nice new 2824 from Ofrei but I did it when I needed a bunch of other things too. Bob is very helpful. Let us know how it works out. The spacer and movement clamps make sure the dial and rehaut is pressed against the case firmly. At least if you fastened them tightly. The only thing that is affected is the crown position. In other words the stem can't pull the dial away from the movement.In case of a 2824 in a 2836 case the stem itself would break due to the force of the movement clamps before the dial ever would come off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Well that's what I thought too but the picture above is telling a different story. Not sure what to make of it. Only thing I can figure is that if the case clamps were not providing enough downward force (due to shape, space or what ever)then the stem might actually cause the above to occur. Dunno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Only thing I can figure is that if the case clamps were not providing enough downward force (due to shape, space or what ever)then the stem might actually cause the above to occur. Dunno? That might very well be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ce_cr3am Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 I have an overlay DW for 2836. I wonder if i can use it for 2824. Does it have the same diameter? so I can put the overlay above the current DW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 I have an overlay DW for 2836. I wonder if i can use it for 2824. Does it have the same diameter? so I can put the overlay above the current DW. should be no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ce_cr3am Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 thanks man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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