The never-ending CG Problem. Let's face it with a AutoCad-designed CNC milled lever

[BuyersRemorse]

Just to clarify: Is it legal or illegal to copy such CG?

I am just asking because it has no Trademark on it, ... could someone check the patent register ... if that CG is registred?

[BuyersRemorse]

Just for information purpose: Called a 3d Scanning company. They want 250 USD for creating a 1:1 exact CAD model of the two pieces.

[PeteM]

Just to clarify: Is it legal or illegal to copy such CG?

I am just asking because it has no Trademark on it, ... could someone check the patent register ... if that CG is registred?

Yes mate the design is most definitely the sole property of OP. And yes it would be illegal. I think it would help you to research a bit more around here and on Risti regarding the CG its history and stories of replication. It was originally patented and is now due to various reasons trademarked.

There is plenty of information in that regard in the usual reference sources.

Which CG are you thinking of copying? FWIW dont even think of using a rep CG from on here or Ebay if you find you can and are prepared for the prolonged and expensive process then you can and should only use a gen of which ever CG you chose to copy.

TB sells his on Ebay as does WHO both of these are based on the gen 111 (i series I think) but dont really come close to the gen and they went through exactly the same process you are suggesting. LH is arguably the closest but still not the same as the gen.

The idea of producing the perfect CGs for the PAMs has ben a long sought after grail the fact is though a few have been close non have been a complete success.

I was wondering if perhaps your thread was started initially in respect of the CG lever issues related to the new Asian 7753s? Its just I seem to recall you mention the lever in the first post. If so then that is not a lever shape issue as Babola posted previously, the issue is the crowns oring and CG shape to case, all of which can be simply modded to be flush and gen like.

GL though mate

[P4GTR]

You pam guys...

I've never seen such a simple, plain watch be scrutinized and dissected to bloody anal hell.

I could probably 1:1 a CG & lever (my brother in law just so happens to work in a metal production shop with all the trimmings..). You guys still wouldn't be happy. Thats the thing with repsti's, you're worse than the Rolex guys.

The short of it, is there's too many reasons not to do this. The negativity and the never good enough attitudes surrounding Pam reps is enough to drive anyone away from touching this. Who are you trying to fool when 99.9% of the population either doesn't know the brand or if they do, are already fooled? Are you afraid some wristi is out there walking around with a micrometer ready to snatch up your wrist for examination?

The ironic part is, these are two of the most SIMPLE pieces of metal I've ever seen when you consider how much more elaborate items can be created of its size or smaller. Hell look at a watch movement.

I hope you guys get your CG's, I truly do. But in the meantime I hope you enjoy what you've got. Remember that someone here was once told "Stick to gens, no rep will ever make you happy." and ask yourself if you've become that guy, like so many people around here have lately.

[P4GTR]

You pam guys...

I've never seen such a simple, plain watch be scrutinized and dissected to bloody anal hell.

I could probably 1:1 a CG & lever (my brother in law just so happens to work in a metal production shop with all the trimmings..). You guys still wouldn't be happy. Thats the thing with repsti's, you're worse than the Rolex guys.

The short of it, is there's too many reasons not to do this. The negativity and the never good enough attitudes surrounding Pam reps is enough to drive anyone away from touching this. Who are you trying to fool when 99.9% of the population either doesn't know the brand or if they do, are already fooled? Are you afraid some wristi is out there walking around with a micrometer ready to snatch up your wrist for examination?

The ironic part is, these are two of the most SIMPLE pieces of metal I've ever seen when you consider how much more elaborate items can be created of its size or smaller. Hell look at a watch movement.

I hope you guys get your CG's, I truly do. But in the meantime I hope you enjoy what you've got. Remember that someone here was once told "Stick to gens, no rep will ever make you happy." and ask yourself if you've become that guy, like so many people around here have lately.

[w0lf]

I didn't see any negativity but then one must remember that we're not in a face to face conversation so some of the context might be getting lost/added. I'm glad to see that my post did not deter the OP from pursuing this further. It is one thing to hatch an idea and quite another to try to see it trough after knowing what's involved.

Regarding the "never happy" comment, I can only speak for myself-- knowing the flaws does not preclude me from enjoying my PAM reps. In actuality being this particular about something is the very thing that stimulates the creative process and evolution of our hobby. The fact that two of the most active subs on any rep board is Rolex and Panerai with vast majority of custom parts projects taking place for these two brands speaks for itself. Why would there be any need to tinker if everything was perfect out of the box?

Lastly, if what you said about doing a 1:1 CG & lever was not just a rhetoric meant to spice up your argument, and you actually are serious and want a stab at it please contact me via PM.

[PeteM]

You pam guys...

He's so irate he had to say it twice!!

He's so irate he had to say it twice !!

Or was it an echo!!

[cskent69]

I agree with W0lf. The reason that alot of us are in this hobby is exactly to fix the flaws of the reps to see if we indeed can make them close to gens. It is great to get reps that are already "ultimates". But, then - the fun is over rather quickly. It is more fun to incrementally change a thing here or there.

Just as long as it does not put you in the po-house.

[P4GTR]

No way! i'm not irate.

It's true. They are a simple watch, that is part of the beauty of the brand. You guys are probably top tier in regards to scrutiny of flaws, if not 2nd to the Rolex guys. Thats fine, thats why we are here, no worries. Would you deny me that truth though?

It's possible that so many have come and gone on this project because of the overwhelming scrutiny and seemingly impossible to please attitude of many of us, at times myself included. I guess thats all i'm saying. Read back at some of the reasons not to. They are two little pieces of metal, my brother in law is designing and manufacturing roller coasters for crying out loud; man is capable of a great deal more. Maybe i'm completely off base, definitely erratic, so forgive me.

[PeteM]

OH yes you are !!!

WE are just not use to such rantings besmirching our good name as 'Pam guys'

[Defender110]

the PURSUIT is more fun the the AQUISITION

this is well documented by psychologists of serious hobbyists and those with addition disorders

allow mr neverhappy and mr remorseful to have their fun and post on the boards their most intimate dreams of pie in the sky while we feel their pain and suffer along side them in their quest to find a hobbists utopia.

[Sweattdogg]

I see the same posts on here and every other rep forum over and over again. Someone comes one here asking why there cannot be a 100% perfect rep and/or parts. They then state their reasoning why it should not be that hard, that expensive, and take that long. Then there is a long line of posts that explain what would need to be done. Frankly, in the end it comes down to the point that most people, don't have the time or money to undertake such a process.

I applaud anyone who is willing to take on such a project. Jimmy Fu did run his 1:1 project successfully and now his parts are sought after so it can be done. If your serious you should probably contact T about his crowns to get an idea of what it would take.

[FxrAndy]

Is this not what V (member here but has not been about for a while) did about a year ago, he had a load of CGs made from a gen and then sold them, (not cheep if i remember)

[w0lf]

Andy, he did this project about 3 years ago and he vowed to never do it again if my memory serves me. Besides JF, V CG was the only other rep CG with a rubber bushing in the lever for tight fit (until MBW's 40mm auto PAMs that came out about a year or so ago). But unfortunately V lever shape and overall finish were inconsistent. No two CGs were the same. The CG feet needed to be milled for fit and in many cases the whole CG refinished. If you wanted an accurate lever you had to bend the tip out a bit as it suffered from the same problem as Toro and SNembo GG lever - too flush to the side of the case when closed.

[okabum]

probably some of you could do this, but reality is that nobody wants to do it. Ask torobravo or LH how many CGs has made and how many has been discarded.

Even in the hypothetical case you even you did it 97% perfect, nobody will be fully happy, because that 3% makes difference between rep and gen

[btocamelo]

heck...while you're CAD'ing the Gen CG....may as well get the Gen Case CAD'ed.....wishful thinking...then flip the watch back on Ebay.

[Drulee]

As many have stated creating the CAD design is the easiest step, the problem comes when you try to get a GOOD CNC business to do the actual machining. Most of the larger professional companies won't touch it as it is a Panerai Trade Mark. The smaller shops, that are run by professionals with a lot of experience, will probably not want to risk losing their rep in the business either. If you do find someone willing to do the work, chances are they are the type that don't worry about exact tolerances and high quality end work, because they're only doing for some quick cash and don't expect to get a lot of repeat business from you. As for the Asian sources that are willing to do it, we are already quite familiar with the quality and preciseness of their work, aren't we

The simple fact is it comes down to money, nobody is going to risk their reputation or business for the equivalent of what they'd blow on a weekend of heavy drinking