Daytona stainless-steel El Primero sec @ 9 rep!

[JimmyGee]

I have been on the soap box for this topic for a while, and I won't repeat what I have already said on the topic, but I still don't see the problem with the rep factories doing it. If the factories don't care in the fact that they sell thousands of the seconds at 6 version, even though it is crap, then I can understand the attitude they have in creating a good seconds at 9 version. But, let's take a look at what we already know;

a. the A7750 with seconds at 9 in a Daytona configuration has been proven to be a good movement, especially if kept up with regular service, without the seconds at 6 conversion it's much more reliable.

b. the A7750 already has been used in countless versions of the Daytona, and the most current versions visually look fantastic, therefore, case parts, dials, hands, etc. are already being manufactured to fit this movement.

c. the more recent version of the A7750 with seconds at 9 and closer sub-dial spacing is already being used in the Zeinth Defy chrono rep which is a rep of a gen that carries the ZENITH EL PRIMERO MOVEMENT, this movement has also been used in a couple of the more recent Omega chrono reps, and has been torn down and reviewed by Fransisco and has been found to be a better made movement using actual jewels at critical points.

d. so they have all the parts for the cases, a rep of the El Primero movement which is a modified A7750 that will fit the cases, and they have the ability to execute dials that are scary close to the genuine. Sounds like they already have the recipe and ingredients, whats the holdup??

One of the tells of a Daytona rep, for me, is the case thickness and the resulting rep from already produced components will yield a Daytona rep that is too thick like the current ones, however, its still possible to bring this to market, and folks will buy it. If we are all ok with putting up with multiple versions of each new rep introduced, I don't see why the rep factories would loose out on this investment. At lease the poor folks like me could finally get a great looking modern style Daytona with a movement that should hold up a lot better than what we currently get for a fraction of what a franken gets built for. If the members here in this forum can build world class projects without having a factory full of parts and machinery at their disposal, then the rep producers can certainly do it, they are just waiting for the right time to produce it and justify charging us double for it.

Having folks like Spinmaster and DW look into producing these projects is indeed a god send since it will put the ability for more folks in the hobby to realize their project for less money and I hope it comes to fruition even though I have not a penny to spend on a watch these days, I live vicariously through all you folks.

Did I just say I was not going to repeat everything I already said, oh well.....

Cheers everyone

Great Post, Thanks

[JimmyGee]

I have already tried the Franken-16520 route with this piece:

Sorry for my Newb question: What is a Franken, please?

[lhooq]

Sorry for my Newb question: What is a Franken, please?

See here, here, and here. And those are just the fresh threads!

The definition has evolved in the past few years, but it still means a watch built out of parts from several sources. These days it commonly refers to a combination rep/gen watch. The ratio of rep to gen varies, and is the reason why usage of the term can be so contentious.

[Dizzy]

If you talk to the gen owners they have a different meaning of the word franken. I agree that it means a mix of gen and aftermarket parts, but some of the hard core collectors will even call an all gen rolex a franken. If you take a Submariner LV and put in a black insert, they call it a franken. Or a GMT with a blue bezel insert they will call a franken.

[freddy333]

If you talk to the gen owners they have a different meaning of the word franken. I agree that it means a mix of gen and aftermarket parts, but some of the hard core collectors will even call an all gen rolex a franken. If you take a Submariner LV and put in a black insert, they call it a franken. Or a GMT with a blue bezel insert they will call a franken.

Rolex (& I) would agree with that. If you send a gen watch into an RSC with an aftermarket crystal, crown, insert, strap, etc, (assuming it does not fool the tech, which is very rare), you will either get the watch returned to you, untouched & with a note saying the watch contains illegal parts, or they will force you to replace the non-gen part with the current gen replacement. There was a thread about this a couple of years ago.

[llsteve80]

Funny timing I guess but coincidentally just yesterday I had bad news from Domi with regards to doing as Dizzy suggested.

I had sourced the closer subdial movement and the el primero dial fits perfectly bar the feet so had sent to domi to assemble in an old secs at 6 case.

Domi mailed me yesterday and told me the movement is too high by 1mm and consequently the stem and pushers don't line up with the case. Not sure if there is any variation in cases for the 7750 version but this was an old style one with too much case between bezel and crown.

Any suggestions to get this project back on track would be appreciated

I see this is an old post, but maybe someone can answer.

This "new" 7750 DEFINATELY has correct subdial spacing? And would anyone know if the movement is thicker or thinner than the incorrectly spaced seconds at 9 7750's?

I would rather have a reliable seconds @ 9 daytona than the time bomb secs @ 6 any day.

Is the 16520 that much thinner than the newer models that it would look wrong to use a 116520 case with 16520 dial and 7750 (correct or incorrect spacing)? Edit: I just read freddy's post, its the caseback that is the issue. Hmmm. Seems to be a tough obstacle to overcome, taking off the rotor assembly and finding a non-existent caseback.

I'm going on a pic hunt now, if anyone can point me to some side by sides of cases in question that would be a great help.

[Dizzy]

All the seconds @ six models have the correct subdial spacing. The 7750 daytonas are way too far apart and its quite noticeable. Its not soo bad on the vintage daytonas, but on the newer ones it looks bug-eyed and silly. If you can find the old seconds @ six daytona with the thinner case and the 21,600 bph movement, then you are off to a good start. All the new ones are way too thick and its very noticable on the wrist to anyone who knows. The case thickness is the first thing i look for when i see someone wearing a daytona. The gen is actually quite thin.

[llsteve80]

All the seconds @ six models have the correct subdial spacing. The 7750 daytonas are way too far apart and its quite noticeable. Its not soo bad on the vintage daytonas, but on the newer ones it looks bug-eyed and silly. If you can find the old seconds @ six daytona with the thinner case and the 21,600 bph movement, then you are off to a good start. All the new ones are way too thick and its very noticable on the wrist to anyone who knows. The case thickness is the first thing i look for when i see someone wearing a daytona. The gen is actually quite thin.

Thanks Dizzy. I been looking at pics of reps and gens, and the reps are a lot thicker. Someone is going to try to fit a Genuine 4030 dial on the new(er) 7750 with el primero spacing for me. Hopefully this week. So thats a start.

I suspect that it won't fit into a case made for el primero, though. The El Primero 400 is only 6.5mm thick, while the 7750 is 7.9mm thick stock. With the added plates needed to move the gears, 9mm? (thats a guess).

So I can, if I'm lucky, find an old secs @ 6 daytona?

I suppose I could live with the thicker case, at the end of the day, all I want is a modern daytona that's not going to blow up.

I don't want to get in to too many details and get people excited in case it doesn't pan out, but I'm really trying to figure out how to get one made for myself, and if I can, there's no reason it should be the only one

[LeSentier]

Thanks Dizzy. I been looking at pics of reps and gens, and the reps are a lot thicker. Someone is going to try to fit a Genuine 4030 dial on the new(er) 7750 with el primero spacing for me. Hopefully this week. So thats a start.

I suspect that it won't fit into a case made for el primero, though. The El Primero 400 is only 6.5mm thick, while the 7750 is 7.9mm thick stock. With the added plates needed to move the gears, 9mm? (thats a guess).

So I can, if I'm lucky, find an old secs @ 6 daytona?

I suppose I could live with the thicker case, at the end of the day, all I want is a modern daytona that's not going to blow up.

I don't want to get in to too many details and get people excited in case it doesn't pan out, but I'm really trying to figure out how to get one made for myself, and if I can, there's no reason it should be the only one

Mate, this makes no sense for me, or maybe it's just my english.

What do you mean by: I been looking at pics of reps and gens, and the reps are a lot thicker. Someone is going to try to fit a Genuine 4030 dial on the new(er) 7750 with el primero spacing for me.

Do you mean that you put an old EP 16520 dial into a new 116520 case (secs@6) ? What is the sense behind that ( if I got you right)?

Best, J

[llsteve80]

Mate, this makes no sense for me, or maybe it's just my english.

What do you mean by: I been looking at pics of reps and gens, and the reps are a lot thicker. Someone is going to try to fit a Genuine 4030 dial on the new(er) 7750 with el primero spacing for me.

Do you mean that you put an old EP 16520 dial into a new 116520 case (secs@6) ? What is the sense behind that ( if I got you right)?

Best, J

It's not your english, it's me typing faster than I think lol.

All the reps look thicker than the gens. My friend is going to try to fit a genuine 16520 dial on the new 7750 seconds @ 9, correct for the 16520. I don't trust any of the seconds @ 6 movements, I only have interest in the older model.

Hope that clears it up.

[LeSentier]

Yes, that makes sense to me now :-)

Maybe you can post a pic of it?

Best,J

[sneed12]

All the seconds @ six models have the correct subdial spacing. The 7750 daytonas are way too far apart and its quite noticeable. Its not soo bad on the vintage daytonas, but on the newer ones it looks bug-eyed and silly. If you can find the old seconds @ six daytona with the thinner case and the 21,600 bph movement, then you are off to a good start. All the new ones are way too thick and its very noticable on the wrist to anyone who knows. The case thickness is the first thing i look for when i see someone wearing a daytona. The gen is actually quite thin.

There are still new watches being built with the thinner case. I bought this one (used) a few weeks ago.

I've been thinking about removing the manual-wind bridge, grinding down the [censored] and trying to put on a flatter caseback, but I'm afraid I'll bork it.