French customs seized Cartier bracelet I sent

[cubancurl]

I had one of the reputable sellers here send a customer in France a replica Cartier love bracelet directly frome china. The customer in france just contacted me that they're bracelet was held in customs and when they called to find out the problem, they were told french customs is keepting it because it is a couterfeit.

can my customer get into trouble? What happens now? Anyone have experience with this?

Here is the message from tracking number:

2010-11-08 03:00:00 FRENCH REPUBLIC ROISSY CHRON Released from Customs

2010-11-09 06:41:00 FRENCH REPUBLIC 74998 Arrival at Delivery Office

[panerai153]

I don't quite understand. According to what you posted, it was released from customs,(2010-11-08 03:00:00 FRENCH REPUBLIC ROISSY CHRON Released from Customs ) and the next was "arrival at delivery office". Sounds to me like customs released it and sent it on to the Post Office for delivery. I would think that if it was seized by customs the post would read "Seized by Customs or held by customs", not released by customs?

[cubancurl]

I don't quite understand. According to what you posted, it was released from customs,(2010-11-08 03:00:00 FRENCH REPUBLIC ROISSY CHRON Released from Customs ) and the next was "arrival at delivery office". Sounds to me like customs released it and sent it on to the Post Office for delivery. I would think that if it was seized by customs the post would read "Seized by Customs or held by customs", not released by customs?

Yes, that is what I thought to but in the tracking in France it stated it differently: arrival in delivery office: CUSTOMS. It was in french so I used an on-line translation to figure it out. My customer in france called Customs and gave them the tracking number given to me by the China seller and customs told her they were seizing it because it's counterfeit. This is my second transaction with this customer in france, the first had no problems.

Can this customer get into trouble?

[panerai153]

Yes, that is what I thought to but in the tracking in France it stated it differently: arrival in delivery office: CUSTOMS. It was in french so I used an on-line translation to figure it out. My customer in france called Customs and gave them the tracking number given to me by the China seller and customs told her they were seizing it because it's counterfeit. This is my second transaction with this customer in france, the first had no problems.

Can this customer get into trouble?

I don't have any idea as to how vigerously the French Customs people will pursue someone for importing one bracelet. Hopefully some of our EU members will weigh in on this. The biggest problem is the customer called customs and specifically asked about that package. Had he not called, he could always deny the package and claim that it wasn't his. possibly wrong address, etc. "plausible deniability". Unfortunately, he has now established a connection between himself and the package, so no deniability is possible now.

[freddy333]

I do not know the laws in France regarding the purchase of reps, but in most countries it is not (functionally) illegal to buy reps (only to sell them). However, it is possible that the buyer could still be charged whatever 'taxes' the country requires when importing a gen.

[cubancurl]

I do not know the laws in France regarding the purchase of reps, but in most countries it is not (functionally) illegal to buy reps (only to sell them). However, it is possible that the buyer could still be charged whatever 'taxes' the country requires when importing a gen.

I don't know if this sounds paranoid but could 'I' get in trouble? Here's what I'm thinking in my mind: the customs ask this customer for the seller's info which is me and she has my paypal ID. Then customs gives it to Cartier and Cartier pursues legal action against me becuase they will see from my paypal I have sold about 15 of these.

[freddy333]

Selling contraband (reps) is illegal in most countries.

[moleman1]

Dont worry the French will surender lol

[panerai153]

I don't know if this sounds paranoid but could 'I' get in trouble? Here's what I'm thinking in my mind: the customs ask this customer for the seller's info which is me and she has my paypal ID. Then customs gives it to Cartier and Cartier pursues legal action against me becuase they will see from my paypal I have sold about 15 of these.

If they pursue this at all, which for one bracelet, I would find highly unlikely, you might get a "cease and desist" letter from Cartier. Basically stop right now, and If we ever hear about you again we will unleash the fury of our lawyers on you. I would be more concerned about your Paypal. If they (customs or Cartier) notify PayPal that you are dealing in counterfeit items, more than likely PayPal is going to suspend your Paypal account. If it were me, I would get all the money out of my Paypal account, as it may save you a lot of hassle later on if they suspend your account and freeze your funds.

Another thing, If the French customs are like US Customs, your customer's address and name are now in the computer, so I would advise him to never try to receive any replicas or counterfeit items at that address or under his name. May not ever be a problem, but they coulld check everything coming through customs to that name and/or address for a while.

[TeeJay]

I'm sure Stephane will be able to enlighten us in due time

[KB]

Let me ask another question.....You had a seller here send your customer the bracelet?

Is there something you would like to tell the admin team about dealing on the board?

Ken

[panerai153]

Uh Oh!!

[txcollector]

this is what the law says.

"Information for private individuals - Counterfeit Goods

Imports into and exports out of France of counterfeit goods violating trademarks are offenses under French general Criminal Law and such goods are deemed to be "prohibited" under French Customs Law.

The introduction of such goods in France - even under cover of a customs international transit procedure - or their shipment out of the country are therefore subject to specific penalties under the Customs code, distinct and additional to those provided for under general Criminal Law.

Since the act of importing or exporting counterfeit trademark goods is an offense under the IPR code and a separate one under the Customs code, violators are not in a position to claim double jeopardy. They are liable to customs penalties, as well as to penalties provided for under general Criminal Law.

IPR violations (trade- or servicemarks, copyrights, patents, industrial designs, etc…) attract, under French general Criminal Law, a sentence of two years’ imprisonment and a fine of one million francs. Those penalties are doubled in the case of a repeated offense or where the violator is or has been related to the injured IPR holder.

As far as imports or exports of counterfeit trademark goods are concerned, they are also offenses under Customs Law and attract the following additional sentences:

- up to three years’ imprisonment;

- forfeiture of the counterfeit goods, as well as of the involved conveyances (vehicle, vessel or aircraf);

- a fine at least equal to the value of the goods, but not exceeding twice that value.

With respect to the importation or exportation of goods violating copyright laws or copying protected industrial designs, Customs officers who come across articles which they suspect to be pirated copyrighted goods or to be violating industrial design laws, may detain those goods for a period of up to ten days to allow the right holder to initiate criminal proceedings or proceedings in tort. When instituting proceedings, the right holder is required to post a security to pay compensation to the owner, importer or consignee if no IPR infringement is subsequently established in court.

"

http://ambafrance-us.org/spip.php?article793

I highly doubt the French government will go after this (too small, not enough resources) but your customer may get a letter and you also if you are the seller (your OP mentioned a dealer here so I'm confused). Usually they also charge a fine in the amount of the original merchandise (around $3K depending on the model of the bracelet). Since you don't live in France it's unlikely they will be able to collect the fine unless you go there. PP can also be alerted.

France is specially protective with counterfeit of French brands. If you ever travel to France with a counterfeit LV bag, they will confiscate on the spot and maybe all the contents. I'm not sure about brands owned by other countries but Cartier, Hermès, Louis Vuitton, Chanel, Yves Saint Laurent, Christian Dior, etc. are very targeted by French customs.

[cubancurl]

I apologize to everyone for breaking the rules. I was not trying to be a dealer. It was one every other month or 1 a month just this past year. This is definately not for the amateurs. I give my word I will not sell replicas anymore. I can't handle the stress when something goes wrong. Thank you everyone for your replies, very sorry KB.

[KB]

Just for the record we have had discussions via PM and cleared up any issues.

I have also given advice on the best course for the OP to take in regards to the bracelet so all should now be good.

Ken