Quality of replicas

[woof*]

"That is just robbery. A brand new Swiss ETA 2824 movement for your UPO is $117 *shipped* Who pays double the replacement price to service something."

I agree. I posted on another thread about removing an Eta movement from the case and taking the bare movement (without hands and dial) to get it repaired. Many times this will result in a 50% cost reduction while at the same time keeps the word 'replica' out of the conversation.

Good repair guys are few and far between in the USA. I have a friend who works mainly on RR grade US made pocket watches and he spends half his time working on watches and the other half turning down repair jobs. Last RR PW I took to him was gone over 6 months...6 months to get to it and 4 hours to fix it.

Auto..that makes sense and is an excellent idea.

[Kal Vilmer]

The servicing-repair of the reps is the biggest drawback to this hobby. You end up (like me) with a very beautiful but broken watch

that has to be taken almost to "underground" ways to get fixed.

It is indeed an annoying thing and it is the major reason why i haven't spent more money on reps an also interesting issue is the

fact that most "factories" like to make 7750 versions of the watches (not sure why). I'm coming to the conclusion that a lot of reps

are like "dumb blondes" = beautiful on the outside but nothing on the inside.

My two cents

PS: Oh before i forget i also conclude that those "QC" things that the dealers do is basically a cosmetic check on the looks of the watch.

Why? because TT "QC'D" my watch and it fell apart on my wrist after a week of wearing it.

I'm currently thinking hard if i should get another Rep, these reps are like mermaids definitely.

[plaifender]

The servicing-repair of the reps is the biggest drawback to this hobby. You end up (like me) with a very beautiful but broken watch

that has to be taken almost to "underground" ways to get fixed.

It is indeed an annoying thing and it is the major reason why i haven't spent more money on reps an also interesting issue is the

fact that most "factories" like to make 7750 versions of the watches (not sure why). I'm coming to the conclusion that a lot of reps

are like "dumb blondes" = beautiful on the outside but nothing on the inside.

My two cents

PS: Oh before i forget i also conclude that those "QC" things that the dealers do is basically a cosmetic check on the looks of the watch.

Why? because TT "QC'D" my watch and it fell apart on my wrist after a week of wearing it.

I'm currently thinking hard if i should get another Rep, these reps are like mermaids definitely.

sorry about your experience.. QC is indeed a much more cosmetic check..But it's also something that we're also lucky to have. A year ago, getting QC pics was virtually unheard of.. Over the last year dealers have caught on. Thanks to dealers like Eurotimez.. the norm has changed.

With regards to your comment on the 7750 movement? What are you exactly talking about? The 7750 or 7753 movement is the only movement available for Chrono models. .. It's not because they want to use chinese movements.. but a chronograph movement is quite a bit more complicated than a standard automatic and is the only movement that you will find in Chronograph watches.. it's not normally found in non-chrono watches with the exception of the Chopard GTXL.

[Kal Vilmer]

sorry about your experience.. QC is indeed a much more cosmetic check..But it's also something that we're also lucky to have. A year ago, getting QC pics was virtually unheard of.. Over the last year dealers have caught on. Thanks to dealers like Eurotimez.. the norm has changed.

With regards to your comment on the 7750 movement? What are you exactly talking about? The 7750 or 7753 movement is the only movement available for Chrono models. .. It's not because they want to use chinese movements.. but a chronograph movement is quite a bit more complicated than a standard automatic and is the only movement that you will find in Chronograph watches.. it's not normally found in non-chrono watches with the exception of the Chopard GTXL.

It's something i've seen on the available reps from lineups such as the TH Aquaracer series or the Longines Hydroconquest series where A7750 chronos dominate. Both the gen TH-AR and LCH lineup includes a wide range of three handed watches some of them beautiful.

Look at the available HC lineup ALL OF THEM ARE CHRONOS, why do they do this? why can't they have at least the black dialed three handed AR or HC? (not the AR500)

I would gladly pick up a three handed HC.

I just remembered that the Montblanc Sport Chrono only comes repped as Chrono too.

[plaifender]

It's something i've seen on the available reps from lineups such as the TH Aquaracer series or the Longines Hydroconquest series where A7750 chronos dominate. Both the gen TH-AR and LCH lineup includes a wide range of three handed watches some of them beautiful.

Look at the available HC lineup ALL OF THEM ARE CHRONOS, why do they do this? why can't they have at least the black dialed three handed AR or HC? (not the AR500)

I would gladly pick up a three handed HC.

I just remembered that the Montblanc Sport Chrono only comes repped as Chrono too.

Three-handed watches?

why does who do what? Why do the gen companies make chronos??

I'm REALLy confused by your statement.

Just look at your last sentence:... "I just remembered that the Montblanc Sport Chrono only comes repped as a chrono" . Of course it's repped as a chrono.. if it's a chrono watch. If it's a standard 3,6,9 chrono gen, chances are it uses a Swiss 7750 variant.. If it's a rep chrono, it uses A7750.

Is there something wrong with the Asian 7750? I don't get what you're trying to say

[Noel Fleischer]

Yes, I have to agree - many times rep movements will require fixing. It's true that gens also require

periodic servicing but very rarely are they DOA or break in a month. That is the main drawback of this hobby. The qc pix

are, IMO, not very helpful. They only show that the watch was working at that time, still can break in a week.

Eurotimez??

I wouldn't really said he did too much to advance this hobby, his whole thing about qc was pure hype.

[Kal Vilmer]

I'm sorry, i was typing very quickly this morning, i think i'm developing some sort of OCD

over rep watches : (

1.- Three handed = hours, minutes, seconds

http://www.authentic...-l36424566.html

http://www.authentic...viera-8778.html

http://www.authentic...111-ba0822.html

http://www.authentic...ort-102360.html

http://www.authentic...01a-ba0591.html

The factories don't make them -maybe cuz they're more affordable-.

2.- Same watches as chronos with POS A7750

http://www.authentic...-l36444566.html

http://www.authentic...s.com/8594.html

http://www.authentic...010-ba0815.html

http://www.authentic...11a-ba0594.html

These are waiting to be purchased from the "QC Master dealers".

3.- My point: IT'S A SHAME THE FACTORIES MAKE ONLY CHRONO MODELS

OF SOME VERY NICE SIMPLER WATCHES.

PS: Who or what was Eurotimes?

Edited March 18, 2011 by Kal Vilmer

[plaifender]

3.- My point: IT'S A SHAME THE FACTORIES MAKE ONLY CHRONO MODELS

OF SOME VERY NICE SIMPLER WATCHES.

PS: Who or what was Eurotimes?

ahh ok.

But where did you read that the A7750 is a POS?? The Zigmeister as well as Francisco (the best watchmakers we have), have done various reviews of the movement and it's just as good and robust as any ETA or Valjoux 7750 with a good servicing. It's no less reliable unserviced than a gen ETA 2824..

The standard Asian 7750 is a great movement and very robust, The AP seconds at 12 used to be unreliable, but the factories have since fixed the problem by adding an extra jewel, so in theory, the new APs should be just as good as any other 7750 (swiss or asian for that matter).

[David111]

There are different levels of watchmaker. Now take the Uk where I live. A specialist who is over 70 and can repair a Cartier watch that Cartier won't, who is a Rolex authorized service agent in the jewelry quarter of Birmingham is servicing a Corum bubble skeleton of mine for £225 plus vat. Eta service of a Ball gen around £150 plus vat.

My local rep friendly watch servicer loves a challenge and is an enthusiast professional watchmaker. He well service for £40 - £90 depending on complexity if the job.

So really it depends what you need! Obviously reps need cheap servicing to be viable, but at least this may help explain the different prices....

Edited March 19, 2011 by David111

[automatico]

"The servicing-repair of the reps is the biggest drawback to this hobby. You end up (like me) with a very beautiful but broken watch

that has to be taken almost to "underground" ways to get fixed."

You are 100% correct.

Otoh...I have seen the same thing happen to genuine rolex and other swiss brand watches in the past 20 years.

Long ago in a land far, far away...I used to be a 'rolex guy' and wore genuine rolex watches most of the time. I remember about 20 years ago when I was visiting a friend who worked at a long time rolex AD when a guy came in and asked about having his watch serviced. Back then the AD service price was $360 and a local repair shop would do it for about $150 (because they could get parts from supply houses). When they quoted the $360 figure the man politely said he could not afford it. After he left the AD owner said "Fuok that SOB, before long they will have to crawl through the door and beg us to work on their GD rolex watches."

That time is now.

So...now I have to go 'underground' to get genuine parts. Since I can work on watches, parts are the main problem so I decided to turn to replicas and here I am. I can fully understand QC problems and repair problems with replicas as QC is mostly a look at the outside and finding a repair guy is about the same hassle as buying 'underground' genuine parts.

Since replica quality is 'the luck of the draw', one answer may be going to quartz replicas (still with crown, bezel etc troubles), or giving up replicas all together. Another is to find a reasonable repair guy or learn basic repair skills and do it yourself...while sticking with time and date Etas and easy to replace Asian '21' movements.

Outside of that...there is really no solution other than spending a lot of $$.

[plaifender]

Outside of that...there is really no solution other than spending a lot of $$.

You forgot the other solution...

Not spending a lot of money and having your rep serviced. I've never paid over $60 for a full servicing of a chronograph movement. (and that was by one of the most reputable modders here on the forum )

[legend1]

Hey plaifender

I'm new to this whole game just ordered my first sa breit from connie at kings....I paid extra for her pre service of the a7750......My question being the noob iam.....Is the pre movement service you can get prior to purchase worth it??? Do most trusted dealers actually service the movement as well as say an rwg trusted watch smith or repairman???? Or did i infact waste my money in purchasing the pre sale service???

Reading all this has me wondering if my rep will last me or not......Not sure what the true facts of reliability of this a7750 really are as like i said......Complete noob!!!!!haha but am still excited about this hobby......

Any response to my questions are greatly appreciated guys as i have alot to learn.......Only today did i learn what a franken is..haha but you gotta start somewhere!!!!!

Thanks gents!!!!!!!

[plaifender]

Hey plaifender

I'm new to this whole game just ordered my first sa breit from connie at kings....I paid extra for her pre service of the a7750......My question being the noob iam.....Is the pre movement service you can get prior to purchase worth it??? Do most trusted dealers actually service the movement as well as say an rwg trusted watch smith or repairman???? Or did i infact waste my money in purchasing the pre sale service???

Reading all this has me wondering if my rep will last me or not......Not sure what the true facts of reliability of this a7750 really are as like i said......Complete noob!!!!!haha but am still excited about this hobby......

Any response to my questions are greatly appreciated guys as i have alot to learn.......Only today did i learn what a franken is..haha but you gotta start somewhere!!!!!

Thanks gents!!!!!!!

Wish you had consulted beforehand. It's pretty established, that the preservice is nothing. In fact, in some cases we've seen people pay for a pre-service and have received watches with dry movements. It's pretty much a scam. If they're not good enough to service the watch before they ship it to you.. it doesn't make sense to pay them to service it beforehand.. when they should have done it in the first place. It's just another way for them to make money. Besides, the watch makers we have here ont he forum are much more experienced than any of the people that are working for our dealers.

The 7750 is a completely great movement. The question is whether or not you get it serviced. If it's properly (and regularly)serviced, it will last you quite a long time.

Maybe you get lucky and they service your movement.. but I wouldn't bet on it. Lesson learned. If you're watch stops soon, that means that the dealer didn't touch it. If it doesn't stop soon.. it doesn't necessarily mean that the dealer touched it either. This game is a crap shoot when it comes to your watch running.. but now you know that next time it stops.. get it serviced by one of our trusted guys here

my .02cents

[legend1]

Ha well my bad on that one plaifender..........Your totally right i should have consulted first....I guess with all the great things i've read about connie from kings on this forum, I got a little excited,and assumed It would all be taken care off at the dealer.....But you hit it on the head..You shouldn't have to pay extra for that in the first place...

Well i guess i could of got completely scammed and not even chose a proper dealer...haha....Atleast i think or hope i got that part right!!!!!

I've done some research......reading all bout The Zigmeister for service, but also reading he's the man, and that he doesn't just take on anybody....Well being a noob here i wouldn't expect him to.....However plaifender, i've read you get your servicing done for around 60$ you say???? Is it possible you could perhaps steer a guy in the right direction for the proper services one will actually need now that i've learned an important lesson???

As always your help and further education is vastly appreciated gents!!!!

[nejad]

i am jewelry professional that understands a rep game. this is hard to answer...what you need! if you need someone to do reset of keyless on 7750 than any rep friendly local guy with a set of screwdrivers and a lupe can help you. you don't teed a master watchmaker! rep or gen you dont! you just need to find someone in local who is rep friendly and that is it. And then if you need to rework SF240 to small second; then you are in more of demand and yes than you need a good watchmaker.

Modding is hard biz, QC is as is, parts are low grade, people have high hopes (100% gen 127 for 1000$ type deals) and finally its "gray". you need a lot of work and risk to make 60 or 100 bucks and your skill level has to be on the level of any good WM that works at AD...

non of my friends who are rep friendly (not too many of them) are willing to take on modding project just because of that reason. they will fig your hair spring or maybe swap a movement but that is it...

so guys look for old guys and small shops and get more in to it

my 2c

[plaifender]

@kalvilmer.. still havent heard on your source about the 7750 being a POS.. i´d be interested to know

@legend1.. No problem. I´m located in europe. It´s always a bit more risky sending your watch internationally.. so if you´re located in the states.. its probably safest if you find someone over there. Some guys were talking about a guy in the midwest named Katt that does quality work for good prices. We generally don´t quote from whom and what prices we get our watches serviced for since, the price is really between the modder and the member, but I can tell you that a good servicing doesnt need to cost more than the price of a new movement despite what some people have said on this thread.

If you´re willing to send your watch to spain, Francisco is great. Give him a shoutout and see if he can take on your watch. His price is dependent upon the labor, and whether or not he has to replace parts. So he´ll give you an estimate and then tell you what the total cost is after its been repaired.

hope this helps

[nikki6]

I'm sorry, i was typing very quickly this morning, i think i'm developing some sort of OCD

over rep watches : (

1.- Three handed = hours, minutes, seconds

http://www.authentic...-l36424566.html

http://www.authentic...viera-8778.html

http://www.authentic...111-ba0822.html

http://www.authentic...ort-102360.html

http://www.authentic...01a-ba0591.html

The factories don't make them -maybe cuz they're more affordable-.

2.- Same watches as chronos with POS A7750

http://www.authentic...-l36444566.html

http://www.authentic...s.com/8594.html

http://www.authentic...010-ba0815.html

http://www.authentic...11a-ba0594.html

These are waiting to be purchased from the "QC Master dealers".

3.- My point: IT'S A SHAME THE FACTORIES MAKE ONLY CHRONO MODELS

OF SOME VERY NICE SIMPLER WATCHES.

PS: Who or what was Eurotimes?

I have every single rep in that list and all of them are still running perfectly! The HC is a killer rep, amazing build quality and finish and runs smooth as a babies butt!

The B&M is an amazing rep, so close to gen that it's rediculous! It runs a 7750 in gen form too, so don't see your complaint there?! It's had 3 owners now and is still going strong!

The Aquaracer is prolly one of my favourite Tags, I have the black model, been going for over 3 years with no problems at all!!

I think you have been pretty unlucky with your watches or you are treating them pretty badly!! Just get them serviced and they will carry on for a good 3-5 years hassle free!

Sixx

[Kal Vilmer]

@kalvilmer.. still havent heard on your source about the 7750 being a POS.. i´d be interested to know

@legend1.. No problem. I´m located in europe. It´s always a bit more risky sending your watch internationally.. so if you´re located in the states.. its probably safest if you find someone over there. Some guys were talking about a guy in the midwest named Katt that does quality work for good prices. We generally don´t quote from whom and what prices we get our watches serviced for since, the price is really between the modder and the member, but I can tell you that a good servicing doesnt need to cost more than the price of a new movement despite what some people have said on this thread.

If you´re willing to send your watch to spain, Francisco is great. Give him a shoutout and see if he can take on your watch. His price is dependent upon the labor, and whether or not he has to replace parts. So he´ll give you an estimate and then tell you what the total cost is after its been repaired.

hope this helps

There is really nothing wrong with a V7750 it is a good reliable movement.

Now, the Chinese clone version of it is IMHO-IMHO a POS, why?

1.- First, an intrinsic problem:

As our reps are ilegal counterfeit items, there is really no quality control, no assembly line, no watchmakers hard at work wearing lab coats so some movements come with detritus, metal filings and random stuff inside, in this post the Zeigmeister puts it clearly:

http://www.rwgforum.com/topic/77693-how-does-a-7750-chronograph-work-part-1/

2.- Second, an extrinsic problem:

Because of their nature a broken A7750 (not a V7750) becomes a PITA because you just can go to "any trusted watchmaker" to have it fixed, it's a complex movement with several pieces and there aren't that many good watchmakers that will provide a good service to a regular V7750, let alone an A770 cased into an ilegal item.

3.- Why do i personally conclude that the A7750 is a POS?

a.- No good qc from "the factories".

b.- Servicing/repairs/spare part problems, it's not like you can readily ship your A7750 piece to "Noobfactory Service Center. Guangzhou. Guangdong. PRC"

c.- I had one that stoped working within 5 days of delivery.

**** this is merely my opinion, your mileage may vary*****

Paco

[legend1]

Thanks for response plaifender......Actually i don't live in states either.....I'm located in canada....EH!!!!! ........Anyone know of anyone who has some great white north watchmaking skillz for possible future servicing???? I see how shipping internationally could be a little risky in this hobby.....Hoping i get a little luck hearing of your issues now Val Kilmer.......Can see how this is gonna be a possible crap shoot situation....Especially learning that you just can't go to any watchsmith........DAMN!!!!!!!!

[ispytonyv]

I know this goes counter to the consensus opinion, but my advice? Sell or toss 'em and replace w/new. 3 out of 20 sounds like a totally normal/predictable rate of failure, in my own rep experience. When you take cost of service, shipping, etc. into account, it often doesn't seem worth the trouble. The other option would be to learn how to do the service yourself, but I've so far not been inclined to pick up the knowledge/tools necessary.

[plaifender]

There is really nothing wrong with a V7750 it is a good reliable movement.

Now, the Chinese clone version of it is IMHO-IMHO a POS, why?

1.- First, an intrinsic problem:

As our reps are ilegal counterfeit items, there is really no quality control, no assembly line, no watchmakers hard at work wearing lab coats so some movements come with detritus, metal filings and random stuff inside, in this post the Zeigmeister puts it clearly:

http://www.rwgforum.com/topic/77693-how-does-a-7750-chronograph-work-part-1/

2.- Second, an extrinsic problem:

Because of their nature a broken A7750 (not a V7750) becomes a PITA because you just can go to "any trusted watchmaker" to have it fixed, it's a complex movement with several pieces and there aren't that many good watchmakers that will provide a good service to a regular V7750, let alone an A770 cased into an ilegal item.

3.- Why do i personally conclude that the A7750 is a POS?

a.- No good qc from "the factories".

b.- Servicing/repairs/spare part problems, it's not like you can readily ship your A7750 piece to "Noobfactory Service Center. Guangzhou. Guangdong. PRC"

c.- I had one that stoped working within 5 days of delivery.

**** this is merely my opinion, your mileage may vary*****

Paco

Firstly,

these intrinsic problems can be said of all rep movements. Including the Clone movements. Granted the 7750 should have a good servicing just like any other movement.. several members have had their SWISS 7750s die on them as well. And the swiss 7750 watches generally cost double the price or more.

Most all trusted watchmakers on the various forums will work on A7750s so i don´t see the "intrinsic" problem. Quality control procedures are something that all movements lack. not only 7750s.

If you´re argument is that an A7750 is crap.. please compare it to something. Compared to a Gen 7750?? Nearly same reliability with servicing buddy. Different parts? Regardless of whether you buy a swiss or asian from our dealers, you should still get it serviced..and our trusted modders here will charge the same to work on one as the other... So... you´ve still got someone that will work ont he movement.. or your saying you don´t trust our online modders to work on your watches??

Lastly... if the asian 7750 is so bad.. why have none of our experts supported your theory?

[plaifender]

p.s.

@Kal Vilmer:

Sounds like you should stop buying Chrono movements.. which ARE intrisically more complicated than your standard ETA-2824-2 movement. But comparing the reliability of the A7750 to the swiss 7750.. you can´t say that the asian is a pos

[ALEX.CPA]

Well, that's pretty insulting talk.

The Zigmeister is is great of course. But he has a waiting list. Sometimes it can be months. He can't be the watch repairman for everyone here.

Over the past six years or so we have seen people other than The Zigmeister offer inexpensive repairs here but they have faded away to put it mildly.

The 200 to 400USD range is what you are going to find in your area in north america and western europe. I'll stick with that prediction. If you can do better locally (I can when he's out of the hospital) go with it.

But don't buy a rep assuming that you can easily get it fixed locally for far under 200USD.

IN NYC I have 7750 iserviced for $150 tops...

[angkikee]

My take on this hobby is if you choose to buy a rep with an Asian ETA movement, you would first want to think about rep friendly watchsmiths for when you do need to do repairs. I started out not too long ago and reading up a lot on the forums and watching youtube videos it’s not impossible to learn the basics like movement swaps and what not. Granted the first few times it’s really unnerving but if you spend the equivalent of the cost of a rep it’s possible to buy the right tools to do movement swaps. The tools and skills you pick up really go a loooong way.

Once you’ve achieved this you now have an option to have your Asian movement serviced or you could just buy a whole new ETA movement from Cousins or Ofrei and do the swap yourself. If this isn’t for you it’s also entirely possible to buy the movement and have a local rep friendly watchsmith swap the movement for you.

The cost of a typical ETA movement is not too much, so if you find the cost of a movement service approaches that of a whole new movement why not consider a new ETA movement and you’re good for another 5 yrs? A Gen owner would probably have his movement serviced, but for me if my dry unlubed and unloved Asian movement failed on me I have two easy options:

1. If it’s a DG2813 or DG4813 movement I’ll definitely just swap movements.

2. If it’s an Asian ETA like a 2836, 2824 or 7750 movement, the logical thing is to swap this for a real ETA movement and run that until it breaks, then service it again. At which point your main watch case and bracelet may also look a little tired. Repeat the rep buying process.

Either way it’s going to be more economical than going Gen. You can of course buy the Gen if that is your thing and you appreciate ALL the details and you know why you want the Gen but this is not what this thread is about. With a Rep you really do have to lower expectations a little and work with a fair budget.

There really are lots of places to get the movement serviced at a low cost, although this is not the case for everyone on the forum the option to buy and install a new movement should be a viable option for everyone. Anyone who moans about reps being unreliable and costly to repair should also know that Gens are not completely trouble free either and the cost of servicing Gens could be much much higher than movement swaps for Reps.

[angkikee]

oh wow hey that was my first post here on RWG!