cib0rgman Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I was looking at some Daytona dial on eBay and the seller says is a used one is a singer dial but for $250.00 I am sure is not Genuine. but how is the quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prototypo Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 its a nd trading or yuki watch quality! not the best but also not the badest! If you need a high end one, search the texas dials ! This pieces are priced up to 8k EURO! But its really difficult to tell a difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted March 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 How does this one compares to the DW dials? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 22, 2011 Report Share Posted March 22, 2011 I was looking at some Daytona dial on eBay and the seller says is a used one is a singer dial but for $250.00 I am sure is not Genuine. but how is the quality? Definitely, not genuine. Quality of this dial is good, but far from perfect. The most obvious issue is the printing of the minute totalizer (subdial at right) is not vertically aligned with the rest of the dial - if you draw a line from 6-to-12, it looks slightly tilted towards the center. If you need a high end one, search the texas dials ! This pieces are priced up to 8k EURO! But its really difficult to tell a difference! Do you have a link or know of a source for a Texas Newman dial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGee Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Hello, This is what a David Wong PN Dial looks like. I paid $130.00 for it only a month ago. I sent him a coded message through the Bay. The dial and watch are with Domi, who is inserting the dial and also replacing the Asian Movement with a Swiss Manual movement. The Bezel should be silver with black writing and not black with white writing. The DW dial is not 100% correct. It should not have the word "Oyster" to start with. Other than that, I can't help much as I'm not not even close to being a Rolex expert. I need to add that the dial is so small, that you would only be able to see the slight imperfections with a loupe. I would rather pay US$130 than US$8K, but that's just me: "cheap" :-) Anyway, if anyone got that close to my Rep Daytona, I would bite them on the ear. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivax Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Very bad dial, forget it mate! This price is way too high. I've just got a gen 6263 dial no PN and I paid 1800 $. So you can be sure this one is tricky!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 The Bezel should be silver with black writing and not black with white writing. The DW dial is not 100% correct. It should not have the word "Oyster" to start with. Jimmy, a few quick points: 6239: Steel bezel, pump pushers. 6241: Black bezel, pump pushers. 6263: Black bezel, screwdown pushers. 6265: Steel bezel, screwdown pushers. There are a bunch of other manual Daytona reference numbers, but those are the big four. 6239/6241 are considered 'true' Paul Newmans by some, while many of the exotic dial 6263/6265s are considered suspect. It sounds like you bought a DW 6263 'Paul Newman'. If so, your dial is correct as 'OYSTER' indicates screwdown pushers. But it may be a 'correct' replica of an incorrect watch. Er... If you really want to be confused, search VRF for the great 'Kamal vs. Mayer' debates. You'll also start to understand what all this Texas dial talk is about. (Hint: It doesn't mean an extra-thick dial!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGee Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Very bad dial, forget it mate! This price is way too high. I've just got a gen 6263 dial no PN and I paid 1800 $. So you can be sure this one is tricky!!! As I said: this dial is NOT perfect and I'm not a Rolex expert. So I should take it out with David Wong? LOL I just uploaded the photo to help someone out, who wanted to see a David Wong PN Dial. Anyway as I said: I'm "cheap" so would have rather spent $130 than $1800. I don't see too many people walking around the streets with a Loupe stuck in their eye? ;-) There are many false PN dials. If we are taking about the same Model Genuine PN, "first" bought for Paul Newman by his wife, then these watches are selling, second hand (once every blue moon)for at least US125,000. No way can I see a Genuine Dial from this first issue selling for $1800. Maybe an exact copy, but not the real dial. Why would anyone want to take out the dial from a quarter of a million dollar watch and sell the dial for $1800? I'm into big chunky watches because my eyesight is too bad to enjoy a 38mm watch and I can't see the details anyway. :-) To each their own. Enjoy your Dial. Oh! It would be great to see a photo of your Dial so that I know what to look for next time. Thank You Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGee Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Jimmy, a few quick points: 6239: Steel bezel, pump pushers. 6241: Black bezel, pump pushers. 6263: Black bezel, screwdown pushers. 6265: Steel bezel, screwdown pushers. There are a bunch of other manual Daytona reference numbers, but those are the big four. 6239/6241 are considered 'true' Paul Newmans by some, while many of the exotic dial 6263/6265s are considered suspect. It sounds like you bought a DW 6263 'Paul Newman'. If so, your dial is correct as 'OYSTER' indicates screwdown pushers. But it may be a 'correct' replica of an incorrect watch. Er... If you really want to be confused, search VRF for the great 'Kamal vs. Mayer' debates. You'll also start to understand what all this Texas dial talk is about. (Hint: It doesn't mean an extra-thick dial!) Thank you LHOOQ, It's obvious that I don't know what I'm talking about and my headache is getting worse (LOL) just trying to get my head around all these models and variations :-) Someone may put me out of my misery and post a picture of the Model that PN's wife bought him? That's the one I would really like. Can't afford a Gen second hand but a nice rep would be great. I probably would be the one walking down the street with a Loupe in my eye admiring my Genuine, Replica Look Alike. I really appreciate your help and insight and I will try my best to learn a thing or two. Cheers, Jimmy. PS: Gee, I'm dumb: I just got your joke:(Hint: It doesn't mean an extra-thick dial!) LOL Part 2. The watch that David Wong sold me has a Steel Bezel and Pump Pushers. Thus suggesting it is a 6239. It was being sold on the Bay with a dial that said: Shear Time, Chronography, & No Daytona over the Sub Dial. Small Square White on Black: 5, 10, 15, etc, Minute Markers,with Short White on Black Minute Markers. I bought the watch and asked if he had a PN Daytona Dial. He said yes, for another US$130. He showed me the photo and being a Newbie I agreed to the dial I posted above. I have just searched the Internet for Genuine PN Models to look at and the dial on the one on the Bay albeit with Shear Time rather than Rolex on the Dial, looks closer to the dial on the Gen 6239 I saw on the 'net tonight. Having agreed to spend a further 300 Euro's + to have the Asia Movement replaced with a Swiss Manual Movement and the "above" posted dial replace the Original leaves me .... with a sour taste. To think I started the evening thinking I would do a fellow member a good turn and show him a DW PN he requested to see. Oh well, live and learn. I'll search the internet for the closest Rep I can find to a Gen 6239 and have a go at replacing the dial myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Someone may put me out of my misery and post a picture of the Model that PN's wife bought him? That's the one I would really like. This (minus the red chrono hand)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Jimmy: I'm very sure that DW sells a Newman 6239 dial i.e. "ROLEX COSMOGRAPH" without the "OYSTER". Whether he has one in stock right now is another matter. He may have sent you that ROC dial because it was close enough, and you did give the OK to the preview picture. DW's always been an honest dealer to me, but you do have to be very specific when you order and know exactly what you want. Nice enough guy, but definitely not a hand-holder. You may believe otherwise right now, but I think that DW's exotic dials are some of the better ones on the aftermarket. Anyone who thinks it's "very bad" obviously hasn't seen most of the rep PNs out there. (Or he's just spoiled by $1800 dials.) I can think of one really nice one that sells for ~$150 out of Indonesia, but it's not currently listed on eBay. I'll see if I can find a picture. Don't be a sour-taster! As a newbie, you're very lucky to start out with one of DW's Daytonas, as they are the most accurate and undisputed best vintage Daytonas you can buy for less than $1000-1500. Seriously, that's the minimum you would have to pay for a better replica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGee Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 This (minus the red chrono hand)? freddy333, Fantastic, Fantastic, Fantastic. Thank you oh so much for posting the picture. I am grinning from ear to ear, because you have put me out of my misery. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGee Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Jimmy: I'm very sure that DW sells a Newman 6239 dial i.e. "ROLEX COSMOGRAPH" without the "OYSTER". Whether he has one in stock right now is another matter. He may have sent you that ROC dial because it was close enough, and you did give the OK to the preview picture. DW's always been an honest dealer to me, but you do have to be very specific when you order and know exactly what you want. Nice enough guy, but definitely not a hand-holder. You may believe otherwise right now, but I think that DW's exotic dials are some of the better ones on the aftermarket. Anyone who thinks it's "very bad" obviously hasn't seen most of the rep PNs out there. (Or he's just spoiled by $1800 dials.) I can think of one really nice one that sells for ~$150 out of Indonesia, but it's not currently listed on eBay. I'll see if I can find a picture. Don't be a sour-taster! As a newbie, you're very lucky to start out with one of DW's Daytonas, as they are the most accurate and undisputed best vintage Daytonas you can buy for less than $1000-1500. Seriously, that's the minimum you would have to pay for a better replica. LHOOQ, Once again, thank you very much for your valuable information. I will get in touch with David to see if I can get the dial you are talking about. I hope he has it and that Domi has not yet started work on my watch, so that I can have the correct dial fitted. If David does not have stock at the moment, it's not the end of the world. I will wait. I don't understand what a "ROC dial" means, but do understand that it's the dial I have pictured. Thank you for your praise of David and I can assure you that I don't have a problem with him. I'm also happy that you don't think my dial to be "disastrous" and I will wear it with pride. I will search for the other dials that you mention. Regarding the Indonesia eBay item: Does he list it as "PN Daytona" or some other name? Is it just the dial or is it the watch for ~$150? I'm hooked, :-) so I'm sure, that in the near future I will look for the $1000-1500 dials. Learning and making mistakes is part of the fun of researching and buying Reps. Thank You. Part 2. Hi LHOOQ, I have found the guy from eBay, Indonesia you talk about, thank you. The Bidding starts at US$144 (something to do with Singer, which I will research to find out what it means. Maybe Singer were making dials for Rolex? I'll try Google) :-) Have spoken to David and he is selling me a 6239, and an extra dial for only US$50. I'm sure the low price is because I bought the "ROC dial" by mistake. He is a good guy and now I'm looking for an Albino 6239. Sending the extra dial to Domi to have fitted, so in theory, I should end up with 2 identical looking 6239's. One with an Asian Movement and one a Swiss Movement. Better two than none, so I'm happy :-) Thank You, J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I don't understand what a "ROC dial" means, but do understand that it's the dial I have pictured. Below the coronet, the dial says ROLEX OYSTER COSMOGRAPH Oyster Daytonas have screw pushers, non-Oyster Daytonas have plain, non-screw 'pump' pushers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexaddict Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 almost -to don't say all- PN dials sold on ebay are not genuine. Even those from Phong or NDT, even those sold for lot of money, there is a very little detail on the minute counter subdial who tells its a fake. Very simple, and no one notice it, and no one aftermarket dial maker correct the flaw, Simple, the mistake is explained on the Italian book "Rolex Daytona, a legend is born" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGee Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Below the coronet, the dial says ROLEX OYSTER COSMOGRAPH Oyster Daytonas have screw pushers, non-Oyster Daytonas have plain, non-screw 'pump' pushers. Thank you freddy333. Things look so obvious after being shown :-) What would I do without you Guys? Truly Grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGee Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 almost -to don't say all- PN dials sold on ebay are not genuine. Even those from Phong or NDT, even those sold for lot of money, there is a very little detail on the minute counter subdial who tells its a fake. Very simple, and no one notice it, and no one aftermarket dial maker correct the flaw, Simple, the mistake is explained on the Italian book "Rolex Daytona, a legend is born" Thank you for sharing you knowledge. I can read a few Latin based languages, including Italian, but I only write in English. Is the Italian book "Rolex Daytona, a legend is born" written in Italian or English? Can you please tell us what the "mistake" is, or do we have to buy the book. : - ) Ciao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cib0rgman Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 almost -to don't say all- PN dials sold on ebay are not genuine. Even those from Phong or NDT, even those sold for lot of money, there is a very little detail on the minute counter subdial who tells its a fake. Very simple, and no one notice it, and no one aftermarket dial maker correct the flaw, Simple, the mistake is explained on the Italian book "Rolex Daytona, a legend is born" Can you elaborate on this. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGee Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Very bad dial, forget it mate! This price is way too high. I've just got a gen 6263 dial no PN and I paid 1800 $. So you can be sure this one is tricky!!! Come on my friend. Show us a picture of your dial???? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexaddict Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Thank you for sharing you knowledge. I can read a few Latin based languages, including Italian, but I only write in English. Is the Italian book "Rolex Daytona, a legend is born" written in Italian or English? Can you please tell us what the "mistake" is, or do we have to buy the book. : - ) Ciao My book is written in both Italian and English, Can you elaborate on this. Thank you First, I coul be vrong - exceptions could exist, but on dials written OYSTER (screwed pushers) the red DAYTONA is not printed Now, concerning the difference between a genuine exotic dial and a replica, look here this one from Stefano Mazzariol : look the minute counter and compare with the minute counter of your picture. You get it ? Here the flaw made on all aftermarket dials, all sellers on ebay show Daytona PN with the minute counter hand at the reseted position... I cut and resized both minute counter subdial from Mazariol and from your picture. The line at 30 ON ALL NEWMAN GENUINE SINGER DIALS is longer than the 10 and 20 lines And you can compare with ALL aftermarket dials or with those sold on ebay, its always the same flaw ps : I just checked with Jewlery&watch, minute subdial on PN dials look better than a few weeks Edited March 24, 2011 by Rolexaddict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivax Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I'll post pics once i receive it. By the way as i said on my previous post. It is NOT a PN dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sql_pl Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Olivax, what is your source? DO they have more of these non-PN dials available? Did you get black or silver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGee Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 My book is written in both Italian and English, First, I coul be vrong - exceptions could exist, but on dials written OYSTER (screwed pushers) the red DAYTONA is not printed Now, concerning the difference between a genuine exotic dial and a replica, look here this one from Stefano Mazzariol : And you can compare with ALL aftermarket dials or with those sold on ebay, its always the same flaw ps : I just checked with Jewlery&watch, minute subdial on PN dials look better than a few weeks Thank you, Yes! I see the difference. Also, thank you for your time and effort to explain. What I am still confused about is: Model 6239, SS, Pump Pushers, RC (not ROC): Should the Minute Markers be: "White on Black" or "Red on Black"? Every time I look at this model, the dial has either: "White on Black" or "Red on Black"? Which is correct? Congratulation for your Book. Ciao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 What I am still confused about is: Model 6239, SS, Pump Pushers, RC (not ROC): Should the Minute Markers be: "White on Black" or "Red on Black"? The white Newman came with either white or red minute markers around the edge of the dial (the black dial had only white markers). By the way, please do not re-quote an entire set of pics just to add a few lines at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGee Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 The white Newman came with either white or red minute markers around the edge of the dial (the black dial had only white markers). By the way, please do not re-quote an entire set of pics just to add a few lines at the end. Sorry, I'm a Newb, so thanks for putting me straight regarding Re-Posting the Pictures. I will need to learn how to do that. I'll see if I can find out somewhere, as I don't always want my hand to be held. It's good for me to do my own research and haven't I learned a lot from you Guys sharing your knowledge!!!! Very Grateful. Thank You. Part 2. It didn't take me long at all to learn how not to Re-Post Photos needlessly. Now I just have to learn how to add smiles as when I drag them over, all I get is: http://www.rwgforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsupsmileyanim.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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