Nebakanezzar Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) @nguyendd... If I was you, I would keep the watch and get a new dial from Eddie that fixes the two issues with yours. As is, your watch is a amazing rep, pay someone a few bucks (my guess $20-30) and replace the dial. @RT... to me, Devedander's question was legit. remember we have had some shuffling of dealers through this proccess, and this could lead to some confusion. I think Devedander just wanted to verify both dealers were offering the same watch and service. but, if he ment it the way you read it, I would agree with you. Edited November 3, 2006 by Nebakanezzar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvn Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 RT - i though the advantage of going for a group buy is that we get cheaper price because we are buying in large quantity without any less in quality. Otherwise, what is the point of buying a lesser quallity watch when there is a better version out there. Your effort in this group buy is tremendousely appreciated and there is no doub about that i my mind. thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Okay... let me say this and end it.... Yes, I say again,.. that I made the request for hand inspections after the dealer change, which was agreed upon from each dealer. I could not post this fact, if I had not... However I cannot guarantee or be held responsible for any that miss the mark, which is what you do, when you post the negative in my thread, and further that I be contacted as well as the dealer... The only fair negative post in this venue, would be concerning price,... But let's talk about QC, this last time,..since it's already been thrown into here.... When buying any replica we all take the same risks in quality control, Not More, but Certainly Not Less, even when we pay a premium, {take a look at the mbw jumbo patek at trc trading board and notice the crooked markers.. } ... this is all part of the game. What is not a part, is to take a QC issue and tie it into a group by thread... It makes no difference where you buy, or how much you pay,... the risk remains, that some of us will receive watches that are imperfect... Let's retain a realistic view. It also makes no difference weather there are 10 to 50 or 200 people participating in a buy, the percentage of problems will be no different, than any other way of purchasing, with the key exeception of that you will have paid a much lower price. Aren't you glad you didn't fork out $350 for the same watch ? Thus, If you encounter a problem, take it up with the dealer as you normally would, including with the dealer review forum.... Don't use my treads to do that.... please. GB threads are about savings.... They must remain for the purpose for which they were designed,.. to save you money on the watches you want the most. Participate, or Not.. but follow the guidelines that must be erected, to keep them free of issues that will entangle them with weeds. Otherwise we pay the full price, with the same gamble in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I just opened a little package from EMS. YES, it's my Ingenieur. My watch is PERFECT in every way. Perfectly centered bezel, Crisp dial, not marks. I'm am blown away. The watch even has a nice AR coating. I'm convinced that there is not a better rep out there with or without mods. Maybe a datewheel font fix, but that's it. This thing is 1:1, great weight, beautiful fit and finish. I'm in heaven. Pics to follow. BTW, my wrists must have shrunk or the watch is bigger than 7.5 inches. I have to take out a link. Thanks to everyone who said they would pass on an extra link. I don't need any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) I don't know how much of that was in response to what I posted but I will agree that really you bear no responsbility beyond being a contact man. That said I think it's understandable if someone suggests contacting you as you are... the contact man... In general I find in life it's best to include all parties involved, there is less "he said she said" and less "well I thought it meant this or that" (I am not implying that plays a roll here, just that it's a generally good rule). But I can definitely see your desire not to be contacted and I think people should try to respect your request not to be if possible. As for QC I agree, we all play that game with reps and it may be a bitter pill but it's one we should all understand. At the same time I think it's pretty common to expect that a dealer provides the watch he pictures on his site and lives up to his promises. Even from very senior members who know the game I get the feeling that it's perfectly normal to expect exactly what you see. And again, no one forces the dealer to promise anything. If I ask for a special consideration and the dealer can't provide it, then that's life... accept it or find a dealer who can. But if I ask for it, it is said it will hapepn, and then it doesn't, then I think we can agree it's fair to address it. Group buy or not. As for how many people are involved I think it can make a difference... let's say EL finds out today that watch is shipping with chipped dials... he gets on the horn with his dealer and says "Hey, you were supposed to check those, I don't want to pay for shipping for 25 dials to people to fix this screw up and I don't want them to think badly of my service, don't ship any more with chipped dials!". If it can't happen maybe he says "Sorry guys, turns out I can't do it, money is being refunded". Shipping and hassle are saved all around. If he can't get his dealer to do something, maybe 10 were shipped and it's too late but it saves 15 from having to deal with the hassle, saves EL some shipping costs for watch dials and saves 15 users the $20-30 it costs to have a dial switched... Also I am not sure the details but if worst comes to worst and he has to refund money, it may save fees and hassle on the refund part also. So in this case I believe it CAN potentially be good to get info in as soon as possible. It's entirely possible this was the one that slipped through and no one else will have a problem regardless. That would be great! But I am just saying there is potential benefit and not a lot of potential harm. I just want us all to come out of this in the best case possible Us with our nice, good deal, watches, and the dealers with some profit in their pockets and a relationship with their suppliers as bigger buyers. Edited November 3, 2006 by Devedander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I just opened a little package from EMS. YES, it's my Ingenieur. My watch is PERFECT in every way. Perfectly centered bezel, Crisp dial, not marks. I'm am blown away. The watch even has a nice AR coating. I'm convinced that there is not a better rep out there with or without mods. Maybe a datewheel font fix, but that's it. This thing is 1:1, great weight, beautiful fit and finish. I'm in heaven. Pics to follow. BTW, my wrists must have shrunk or the watch is bigger than 7.5 inches. I have to take out a link. Thanks to everyone who said they would pass on an extra link. I don't need any. Thanks for the Positive post Estaban... So how is the link situation ? Jay is sending my watch last, after everyone ... I won't be able to send any links for a few weeks at least.. but I will keep my promise as always... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I just opened a little package from EMS. YES, it's my Ingenieur. My watch is PERFECT in every way. Perfectly centered bezel, Crisp dial, not marks. I'm am blown away. The watch even has a nice AR coating. I'm convinced that there is not a better rep out there with or without mods. Maybe a datewheel font fix, but that's it. This thing is 1:1, great weight, beautiful fit and finish. I'm in heaven. Pics to follow. BTW, my wrists must have shrunk or the watch is bigger than 7.5 inches. I have to take out a link. Thanks to everyone who said they would pass on an extra link. I don't need any. Great to hear!!! Like I wasn't already excited enough, this just makes it worse! Did you get from EL or Jay? Can't want to see pictures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 No need for links Richard/David. Watch fits fine. I actually have to take out one link. Can someone help me with this process. I have the tools, now what do I do with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I believe you push the little circl on the inside of the link you want to remove (the side that would touch your wrist) then push from the edge like a normal link pin to remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pobiga Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Have a look here: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=13289&hl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tracy Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I don't know how much of that was in response to what I posted but I will agree that really you bear no responsbility beyond being a contact man. That said I think it's understandable if someone suggests contacting you as you are... the contact man... In general I find in life it's best to include all parties involved, there is less "he said she said" and less "well I thought it meant this or that" (I am not implying that plays a roll here, just that it's a generally good rule). As for QC I agree, we all play that game with reps and it may be a bitter pill but it's one we should all understand. At the same time I think it's pretty common to expect that a dealer provides the watch he pictures on his site and lives up to his promises. Even from very senior members who know the game I get the feeling that it's perfectly normal to expect exactly what you see. And again, no one forces the dealer to promise anything. If I ask for a special consideration and the dealer can't provide it, then that's life... accept it or find a dealer who can. But if I ask for it, it is said it will hapepn, and then it doesn't, then I think we can agree it's fair to address it. Group buy or not. As for how many people are involved I think it can make a difference... let's say EL finds out today that watch is shipping with chipped dials... he gets on the horn with his dealer and says "Hey, you were supposed to check those, I don't want to pay for shipping for 25 dials to people to fix this screw up and I don't want them to think badly of my service, don't ship any more with chipped dials!". If it can't happen maybe he says "Sorry guys, turns out I can't do it, money is being refunded". Shipping and hassle are saved all around. If he can't get his dealer to do something, maybe 10 were shipped and it's too late but it saves 15 from having to deal with the hassle, saves EL some shipping costs for watch dials and saves 15 users the $20-30 it costs to have a dial switched... Also I am not sure the details but if worst comes to worst and he has to refund money, it may save fees and hassle on the refund part also. So in this case I believe it CAN potentially be good to get info in as soon as possible. It's entirely possible this was the one that slipped through and no one else will have a problem regardless. That would be great! But I am just saying there is potential benefit and not a lot of potential harm. I just want us all to come out of this in the best case possible Us with our nice, good deal, watches, and the dealers with some profit in their pockets and a relationship with their suppliers as bigger buyers. You know Devedander,... for someone who has not even received his watch yet, you are doing a lot of pre-supposing, which would be hold more water after receipt, and as I keep saying,.. in another thread.... You are evidently new to this game, however would learn much more from reading, than posting until you know of what you speak. First,.. I am only the contact man for Price.... I have a job you know.. five kids.. a wife.. a home... Please..... Lastly... Naturally EL is taking care of his business.. he would not have been around and be so well loved otherwise, and NO dealers do not profit from losing 33+% from each sale, when they already have a steady client base, which EL has in spades..{He was selling these grand watches at his full price without a bead of sweat...}. His goal is to attact new customers... at a loss this time. We have no power here unless we know the rules of engagement... This is a balancing act in negotiation.. not a Gang Beat Down. Posts like your are making me seriously revising my method of accepting people into these events, the costs in time & frustration is wearing on me....which I think would be better served for all concered .. especially the dealers if I allow only seasoned people or those who understand and accept the game plans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) RT I think you are feeling threatened by me in a way which I didn't intend to happen, so maybe it's best if we take our own little corner of this to PMs as you suggested... I would just like to say here that if indeed my posts cause a turn for the worst in the forums I am sincerely sorry. My exceessive presupposing was a result of my desire not to make the classic noob mistake of jumping in without thinking... it would seem perhaps I hit the other end of the scale and thought too much. I don't like surprises and maybe that leads me to be a bit too anal in how I approach a complex situation, so I hope I didn't offend anyone, and indeed I am (admittedly) new to this game so if I am making noob mistakes, I apologize for anyone who will suffer from me cutting my teeth here. Just to set the record straight, I didn't think you lied about the watches being checked, I just thought I might have missed something. I realize it was in an edit but I did say I think people should respect your request not to be contacted and when I said it was reasonable to contact you I didnt mean people should, but just that it seemed not unreasable to want to contact everyone involved. Profit margins are something I don't have access to direct knowledge of so I will have to assume you do and stand corrected. The original post that I think started this heat was me trying to clear up the rules of engagement, albeit after the fact. I say again that (although it did look like it) I was not trying to imply you were lying. I have agreed and paid for something, if I made an incorrect assumption about what I paid for, it's on me and I would not be happy about that fact. The "wouldn't like to find that out" isn't a jibe, it really means it would pain me to find out I screwed up by not paying careful enough attention to the details. RT I will PM you and hopefully we can clear the air. Edited November 3, 2006 by Devedander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I got it in about 1 minute. Really easy. One link out, perfect fit. I'm stunned by this watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 RT I think you are feeling threatened by me in a way which I didn't intend to happen, so maybe it's best if we take our own little corner of this to PMs as you suggested... I would just like to say here that if indeed my posts cause a turn for the worst in the forums I am sincerely sorry. My exceessive presupposing was a result of my desire not to make the classic noob mistake of jumping in without thinking... it would seem perhaps I hit the other end of the scale and thought too much. I don't like surprises and maybe that leads me to be a bit too anal in how I approach a complex situation, so I hope I didn't offend anyone, and indeed I am (admittedly) new to this game so if I am making noob mistakes, I apologize for anyone who will suffer from me cutting my teeth here. RT I will PM you and hopefully we can clear the air. Devedander, You've been around these parts for around two weeks. I'm guessing this is your first purchase. I you want perfection, get a genuine watch (it still won't be perfect). I made many of the same mistake that you've made with being overly critical of purchases. Sometimes it was just buyer's remorse setting in, and sometimes it me expecting something for nothing (or perfection for little $$$). I'm not trying to be critical, but this is part of the hobby. If there are serious things wrong with a watch, the dealers take care of it. If it's something small, they often take care of it too. Sometimes patience is required. I have sent watches back and waited a month or so for a replacement. Other times I've passed on watches that just aren't my cup of tea to someone else who might appreciate it. It never cost me much money to do any of these things. Just a little bit of time. You live and learn in this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebakanezzar Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I got it in about 1 minute. Really easy. One link out, perfect fit. I'm stunned by this watch. Pics Pics Pics !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eden3336 Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Kev, hope you won't treat this as a negative post, all I wanted is to do a quick group buy follow up. I received the watch today and it is amazing! Just that it has the same problems as nguyendd's; but a rep is a rep, so I guessed I am not gonna lose any sleep on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) Well I am new to the game, and I can accept I may have much to learn, but I have honestly tried to do my part to educate myself and feel that it's about all one can really do... I actually ordered a noobmariner from ttk a while back... and as little as it is in the big picture I think my attention to detail worked well... I followed his ordering instructions and think I am clear on what to expect and haven't so much as posted a whisper that he never confirmed reciept of payment and I haven't heard anything from him in about 2 weeks since (which I acredit to the fact that have indeed studied up and know this is not something unreasonable and in fact there is no real reason to expect otherwise). So while I can fully accept the noob lable, I hope it's not being given unwarrentedly simply by age of account. I also haven't post whored my way to 200 posts... I try to put a good deal of effort into my time here and I am sorry to see it is not resulting in a positive manner. I tried to make as clear as possible that while I understand the inherent QC issues with reps that I was only bringing this up as it was a specific part of the deal and specifically spelled out... I would proably have been in on this GB even if the deal was "$200 but you accept that probably there will be chips in the dial". I honestly am trying to be a valuable part of the community. My brutally honest manner of speaking may be offensive to some, and if it is I have already apologized, but I do feel that honestly and up frontness end up with far better results than guilding the situation. Edited November 3, 2006 by Devedander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvn Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Kev, hope you won't treat this as a negative post, all I wanted is to do a quick group buy follow up. I received the watch today and it is amazing! Just that it has the same problems as nguyendd's; but a rep is a rep, so I guessed I am not gonna lose any sleep on that. Hey i am glad you like it. but the problem on my watch is much worst than just the chip pain on the dial. If you look at my picture and very marker are off center from number itself and that bothered me alot. As you can see my picture below every single stickmarker seats right blow the first letter of a number instead of the center of the whole number. I hope you see what i mean. Enjoy your watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebakanezzar Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Hey i am glad you like it. but the problem on my watch is much worst than just the chip pain on the dial. If you look at my picture and very marker are off center from number itself and that bothered me alot. As you can see my picture below every single stickmarker seats right blow the first letter of a number instead of the center of the whole number. I hope you see what i mean. Enjoy your watch. yeah, i agree. I could proboly live with the chip. the chip on yours is not nearly as bad as some others that have been posted.....but the misalligned markers are just plain messed up! ....as I said before, If I was you, i would get a new dial from Eddie and just swap the bad one out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Here's a pic of my new Ingy Thingy. I think it has a great wrist presence. Much better than either the 45mm or 42.5mm PO. Those long lugs paired with a 22mm lug width make it look silly. This thing is incredible. Date font fix and it' is PERFECT. What do you guys think. Garden and sunshine (thanks EL) pics will come tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebakanezzar Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 (edited) Here's a pic of my new Ingy Thingy. I think it has a great wrist presence. Much better than either the 45mm or 42.5mm PO. Those long lugs paired with a 22mm lug width make it look silly. This thing is incredible. Date font fix and it' is PERFECT. What do you guys think. Garden and sunshine (thanks EL) pics will come tomorrow. Oooooh Ahhhhhhh I hate waiting! Edited November 3, 2006 by Nebakanezzar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvn Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Here's a pic of my new Ingy Thingy. I think it has a great wrist presence. Much better than either the 45mm or 42.5mm PO. Those long lugs paired with a 22mm lug width make it look silly. This thing is incredible. Date font fix and it' is PERFECT. What do you guys think. Garden and sunshine (thanks EL) pics will come tomorrow. @estaban, that is a beautiful watch and luck is on your side. I could not live with mine based on the off-centered markers. The thing is Eddie has no more left for exchange. He said all 25 has been spoken for and shipped. I won't do the replacement dial because it ends up cost me more since i don't know how to do this myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estaban Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 If anyone needs an extra link, I will send it out free of charge. Did I mention that this watch DOES have AR coating. Not heavy, but noticeable. I can't wait to walk into Tourneau or another jeweler in Chicago on Sunday. I'll be treated like a king. No one could tell that this watch is a rep unless they had a gen side by side to compare the date font. Incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchlover321 Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Mine is due today from EL... I will post pics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachshund Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 nguyendd I could be wrong, but it looks like the dial and the outter ring are two different pieces, if you have a way of opening the back, simply loosen the case clamps and you should be able to slide the dial slightly clockwise, if you notice the date window does not line up with the crown anyway. That should be all it takes to line the hour indices with the numbers. Give it a try, really simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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