crystalcranium Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 I've had the fortunate experience of being a replica watch buyer for over 20 years and a serious collector for almost five years. In that time frame, replica quality has made remarkable strides and I've seen the development of this neat community of high end dealers and customers who collect the very best. This very best has evolved significantly in the last few years. From faux chronos to working chronos, from ticking quartz submariners to cheap asian movements to swiss mechanicals, from pretty close to very close to indistinguishable. Recently the state of the art seems to be 1-1 copies. The Tag Link Chrono, the IWC's, the VC Overseas, and now, the Omega SMP Chrono Diver and the soon to come out B&R, are examples of this trend. I'd like to think we are a small community of crazy enthusiasts and that if there are 10,000 or so of us who are willing to pay $300-$1000 for a replica watch, there are suppliers out there willing to feed us. I don't know how much direct feedback from us through the dealers to the manufacturers has driven what we have seen so far but I like what I am hearing from Josh and others about the flow of communication between us and our suppliers recently and we are seeing some remarkable copies because of it. I want to know what you think will be the next step in replica quality? Will it be 1-1 interchangeability of original parts? Will it be accurately decorated movements? What would you like to see and what do you think we can expect to see given the realities of the market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 In this order and what I think is achievable in relatively short order: Date Font Cyclops where possible and appropriate Crowns where the crowns currently are poor, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 I would like to see a more reliable chrono movement and a better way of plating gold watches. Maybe more of a gold shell process that will cost more but will be the same look as solid gold and last just as long. I would also like to see better dial printing and crowns on the rolex models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmosblau Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 That's easy: -Superlume -AR Coating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
got-it Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Sufficient AR coating...none of this "light AR" crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted October 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 That's easy: -Superlume -AR Coating Yes, putting accurate lume on the hands and dial markers on replicas across the board would be a major step up in quality. And, as I said, in this community of replica lovers, who wouldn't pay an extra $25 for replicas that have accurate bright lume on the hands and dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 QC Luming Solid gold on rollie reps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Overall, I don't expect to see great steps forward in the quality of reps. In fact, the trend is just the opposite, as the market accepts more Asian movements. Manufacturers will continue to spend just enough to appeal to the masses. As an example, look at the shortcuts that The Zigmeister has discovered in the IWC Port. chrono. This watch had the potential to be a quality classic. Instead, the manufacturer set quality aside, and strived for cosmetic appeal....Just enough to make the sale! True classic, quality pieces, like MBW and DW vintage cases, will continue to be the exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linkukbora Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Yes, putting accurate lume on the hands and dial markers on replicas across the board would be a major step up in quality. And, as I said, in this community of replica lovers, who wouldn't pay an extra $25 for replicas that have accurate bright lume on the hands and dial. I won't disagree with you and I'll pay more if that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Lum is definately a problem and the reason why I will probably not get the new BR I watch or the new 49 mm railmaster. They look good but once you get used to excellent lum, you can't go back. And re luming these myself is way beyond my level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitmic Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Lum is definately a problem and the reason why I will probably not get the new BR I watch or the new 49 mm railmaster. They look good but once you get used to excellent lum, you can't go back. And re luming these myself is way beyond my level. For Railmaster: TTK says LUMINOSITY : EXCELLENT eddielee11 says It will have matte black dial with SuperLuminova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted October 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Overall, I don't expect to see great steps forward in the quality of reps. In fact, the trend is just the opposite, as the market accepts more Asian movements. Manufacturers will continue to spend just enough to appeal to the masses. As an example, look at the shortcuts that Ziggy has discovered in the IWC Port. chrono. This watch had the potential to be a quality classic. Instead, the manufacturer set quality aside, and strived for cosmetic appeal....Just enough to make the sale! True classic, quality pieces, like MBW and DW vintage cases, will continue to be the exception. Well, what I am hoping for, and what I see is maybe starting to happen, is that the masses be damned, they are producing small runs of high quality replicas for the discerning collector. Yes I agree, the majority of what is produced is junk and will remain junk as long as lots of people continue to buy junk. What I'm talking about here is the state of the art in replica production. The stuff that get's produced in small, high quality lots. Am I wrong? Is my Tag Link Chrono a small rare production run or is it hanging from hooks on every vendor cart on Canal Street? Maybe it's not the special watch I think it is. I hope what I'm sensing here is an ever growing niche market for high quality replica watches, not the mass produced kind, but ones produced to a higher standard of mechanical quality and replication fidelity. How many off the street Asian Submariner buyers would be willing to shell out $500 for a Swiss movement, serviced and adjusted, water resistant treated and tested Sub? Not many. This is not the market I'm talking about. I know of quite a few nut jobs here, myself included, who HAVE done it and have an appetite for even higher quality and fidelity and are willing to pay for it. As long as the replica state of the art remains at or below 1/10 the price of a genuine, I'm still going to be interested in buying. So what I'm hoping for is a better communication conduit between us and the dealers and their suppliers for what we want and what we are willing to pay. I would love someone to produce an out of this world, accurate with attention to all of the feedback that has been given here, 1-1, OEM interchangeable Submariner. I would pay a very high premium price for one if it had these qualities. And I'm sure there are thousands here on these boards who would do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Well, you can thank the Japanese for the very high end reps. They were the first market to want and be willing to pay for the best in reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Well, what I am hoping for, and what I see is maybe starting to happen, is that the masses be damned, they are producing small runs of high quality replicas for the discerning collector. Yes I agree, the majority of what is produced is junk and will remain junk as long as lots of people continue to buy junk. What I'm talking about here is the state of the art in replica production. The stuff that get's produced in small, high quality lots. Am I wrong? Is my Tag Link Chrono a small rare production run or is it hanging from hooks on every vendor cart on Canal Street? Maybe it's not the special watch I think it is. I hope what I'm sensing here is an ever growing niche market for high quality replica watches, not the mass produced kind, but ones produced to a higher standard of mechanical quality and replication fidelity. How many off the street Asian Submariner buyers would be willing to shell out $500 for a Swiss movement, serviced and adjusted, water resistant treated and tested Sub? Not many. This is not the market I'm talking about. I know of quite a few nut jobs here, myself included, who HAVE done it and have an appetite for even higher quality and fidelity and are willing to pay for it. As long as the replica state of the art remains at or below 1/10 the price of a genuine, I'm still going to be interested in buying. So what I'm hoping for is a better communication conduit between us and the dealers and their suppliers for what we want and what we are willing to pay. I would love someone to produce an out of this world, accurate with attention to all of the feedback that has been given here, 1-1, OEM interchangeable Submariner. I would pay a very high premium price for one if it had these qualities. And I'm sure there are thousands here on these boards who would do the same. We're talking about the same watches. The IWC that I referenced is a $200-$300 rep. You won't find it on Canal street. But believe me, it is being mass produced, and sold to the masses. If, like me, you bought one, you can consider yourself part of the mass. The type of esoteric pieces that you're hoping for will not be coming out of the factories where our dealers get their supplies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 What would you like to see and what do you think we can expect to see given the realities of the market? Some Quality Control. It's not much to ask ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 I haven't been in it long but what I would love to see is AR coating and Super Lume... AR coating is a major part of the look of a watch and I hate not being able to read the time at 3am without turning on a light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 We can ask and we can beg for this and that improvement but will we get what we ultimately want..namely extreme likeness, the desireable dimensions, correct spelling, font and QUALITY in the one and the same ultimate high end luxury replica...the answer is no never (I so hope I will be proven wrong) Gunnar the replica collector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subzero1 Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Real Sapphire crystals, with proper AR coating is the biggest difference between a rep being believable or not, at this point in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Many have covered the obvious ones: -AR -SuperLuminova -Date fonts (fonts in general) I'd also like to add: -Magnification of cyclops -Good movements for good reps (eg. have IWC GST Chrono, TAG Chrono, SMP Chrono, PAM187 etc available with ETA 7750 or ETA 7753 - whichever is appropriate) Other side issues could be: -crowns -crown guards (eg. newer PAM ones) And possibly? -tested water resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 Good responses. I agree with all of them.Visual accuracy has improved dramatically. Mechanically, and Lume, date font issues, etc. need to worked on. Asian movements are improving but would like to see more swiss versions. We've shown that we'll spend the money. Especially for Chrono's. .......last, but not least...........QUALITY CONTROL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elwopo Posted October 20, 2006 Report Share Posted October 20, 2006 First off....excellent topic!!! What you ask is one heck of a deep question. People look for different things. The concept of dial font.... letter spacing.... m's lining up perfectly...."swiss made" being placed perfectly..........that's just not a concern of mine. These are things that can only be noticed by very close inspection and only by those who are very well versed as to the pure accurate reality of minor details. My wish list? GOLD. Someone posted on this and they included the math involved....and how much extra it would mean to each rep to do it right. If memory serves...it would have been something like 10-20 dollars extra. Even if it's more....so what. I read somewhere that the Rolex sub is one of, if not the most, highly replicated watches. I find it difficult to believe that if someone would actually apply the right quality gold in the right manner....that these things wouldn't fly in sales and create tremendous demand. With the movements as good as they are...with the cases getting better....the cg's getting better....I refuse to believe that if someone produced a quality gold process...that the item would not sell at a higher price. The labor and parts for these reps are produced at pennies on the dollar....we aren't going to kid ourselves about where and how they are made are we? Do it right....produce a TT or total gold that isn't plated and won't wear off or tarnish in months.....I'm all over it....and I know I'm not the only one. I'd love to hear from dealers regarding their percentage of sales of watches that are total SS versus anything with gold. That's because the word is out that gold is to be avoided right now. Produce a quality one.....go apeshit and charge 500...750....1000 for it (making the profit margin beyond insane)......I, for one, would step up without a problem. The manufacturers don't seem to know that they don't have to keep everything at the same price point. Build it right....and they will come. Just my opinion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 In this order and what I think is achievable in relatively short order: Date Font Cyclops where possible and appropriate Crowns where the crowns currently are poor, etc. Yea. Date font especially seems to be an after thought on almost all non-Polex reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 For Railmaster: TTK says LUMINOSITY : EXCELLENT eddielee11 says It will have matte black dial with SuperLuminova This is very cool,,,,,I'll probably end up getting one if this is the case. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted October 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 We're talking about the same watches. The IWC that I referenced is a $200-$300 rep. You won't find it on Canal street. But believe me, it is being mass produced, and sold to the masses. If, like me, you bought one, you can consider yourself part of the mass. The type of esoteric pieces that you're hoping for will not be coming out of the factories where our dealers get their supplies. Well, there was a time several years ago when wanting an affordable chronograph replica that had functional chronos was as much of an esoteric pipe dream. Now, thanks to the asian 7750, I can buy one for $199. There was a time when expecting a decent replica in a brand other than Rolex, was also considered asking too much of the underground "we could care less about what the consumer wants" replica producers. Now we have dozens of remarkable reproductions of many high horology brands. I'm not suggesting that all we have to do is ask for the ultimate replica and it will roll off the assembly line tomorrow. The process will inch along. But I'm willing to bet 5 years from now we'll be talking about how we ever brought ourselves to buy reps without Super Luminova, or without an accurate brand name display box, or without decent AR coating etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 Railmaster luminosity......! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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