turkey Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 My question is pretty much as the title states. I've been looking into getting a gen Vintage Seamaster 300 and as part of my process, I like to research the avaliable reps to help me make an informed decision. I've found a rep vs gen guide on scubawatch.org, but was curious if any better quality reps were avaliable. I've seen a few 300s where the numbers on the bezel insert don't match any of the reps in the guide nor any of the photographs of gens. I searched on several dealer sites and did not find anything and the only mention on this forum is of gens a few people bought. This is in contrast to what I hear on timezone and watchuseek where they make it sound like there are quite a few reps floating around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankt Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 My question is pretty much as the title states. I've been looking into getting a gen Vintage Seamaster 300 and as part of my process, I like to research the avaliable reps to help me make an informed decision. I've found a rep vs gen guide on scubawatch.org, but was curious if any better quality reps were avaliable. I've seen a few 300s where the numbers on the bezel insert don't match any of the reps in the guide nor any of the photographs of gens. I searched on several dealer sites and did not find anything and the only mention on this forum is of gens a few people bought. This is in contrast to what I hear on timezone and watchuseek where they make it sound like there are quite a few reps floating around. There are a lot of "fake" 300's that are actually "franken" Omegas modified to loook like 300's...These are usually made by nefarious assholes trying to screw the public... AFAIK, there are no specifically made replicas of this watch, mainly because the market in reps is mainly for popular current genuine's, and only a tiny segment of collectors even know what a 300 is... Knowing this, I would NEVER buy a 300 from a stranger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Here is one I got a few months ago from TTK: Very well done. Here is one I got a few months ago from TTK: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Like frankt said the most on ebay are frankenwatches. Because of the price there are no reps made of the sm300 (at least not seen by me). There is a seller of the real deal but you probably have his adress already. But if not here it is; timeman Edit to say; There are reps of the sm 300 but not here on the boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turkey Posted October 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Thanks for the replies. frankt - Thanks for bringing that up. Thats something that never crossed my mind & is going to make this an interesting search. Perhaps it might be easier for me to do the same sort of thing and see if watchco still has any 300 parts left. robertk - thats quite the looker you have there. retep - I frequent that website quite a bit, but have yet to purchase anything. I was never quite sure how legitiment it was. Have you purchased anything from Andy the timeman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 retep - I frequent that website quite a bit, but have yet to purchase anything. I was never quite sure how legitiment it was. Have you purchased anything from Andy the timeman? No i didn`t but timeman is a legit site and well known. What i have read/heard he is a good guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Turkey, I just sold my Omega SM300 genuine. Probably one of the nicest vintage SM 300's around. It just came back from Bienne for a complete maintenance service. It sold for 1795.00 USD within 2 hours of it being posted on Timezone Sales Corner. My first experience with a SM300 wasn't so pleasant. I bought one of the "Frankenwatches" off of Ebay. The fellow I purchased it from was very upfront and let me know that it wasn't genuine, except for the movement. I got it cheap and wanted it for a project watch. Here is the problem. It's sort of like a non-MBW rep Rolex Submariner, it looks like it's the real deal, but it isn't. I bought a genuine NOS dial, hands, crystal and bezel from Watchadoo on Ebay. Watchco also still has some parts, but they are getting scarce and the price is going up, up ,up. My plan was to send both my genuine and the Franken to Ziggy, replace the dial, hands bezel and crystal on the genuine with the NOS parts and take the old but still good parts from the genuine and put them on the franken. Well, as usual great plans often go asunder. Ziggy found that the only thing off the genuine that would fit were the hands and dial. The bezel didn’t fit and the genuine crystal was just a few thousandths’ too big. Also the caseback on the franken is a dead givaway ,as the fonts are incorrect and certified is misspelled. I had planned to replace the caseback on the franken with a genuine caseback but fortunately for me, I tried my genuine caseback, seemed to fit, but the thread pitch is not the same. Long story short, it wouldn’t fit. What I’m trying to point out is if you want a correct SM300 you are going to have to get a genuine. If you get a franken, you will be able to at best replace the dial and hands. The very incorrect bezel is going to always be there, staring you in the face every time you look at the watch, plus you cannot use a genuine crystal with the Omega Hallmark. Another problem with the frankens is the movement. Often the makers (allegedly these are produced in Vietnam) will cobble together a movement out of parts. You may have a movement that says 565, but it has a 562 bridge and markings. It’s all genuine Omega, supposedly, but made from the parts bin. Because these movements are genuine Omega, it adds a new dimension to spotting the franken. With a Rolex Submariner Replica, you will never see photos of the caseback opened up, because of the wrong movement, but every one of these has good photos of the movement. And all of the frankens are being passed off as genuine. Because of these problems as well as the ridiculously high prices that these frankens bring on Ebay, I would opt for a genuine. You can find pretty nice non-date models for 1k or a little less, date models are a little more expensive. Often the franken prices are right up there with the genuine, bidding pushed up by unsuspecting folks who haven’t done their homework. That website “Hall of Shame” A spotters guide to fake Seamaster 300s should be required reading for every potential SM300 buyer. Here is the link http://scubawatch.org/hallofshame.html The fakes are easy too spot, you just have to know what your looking for. Hope this adds a little to the discussion. It would be nice to see someone make a nice replica of the vintage SM300 with a good reliable ETA movement. Also, Andy is a good guy. Lots of nice things said about him over on the Dive Watch Forum. But Someone mentioned that even Andy with all his experience had been taken in on a couple of watches that turned out to be fake. Arthur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Turkey, I just sold my Omega SM300 genuine. Probably one of the nicest vintage SM 300's around. It just came back from Bienne for a complete maintenance service. It sold for 1795.00 USD within 2 hours of it being posted on Timezone Sales Corner. Yeah, I've heard the collectors are paying crazy prices for those now. And like you say, the problem is that most of the "genuine" SM300's are more or less frankenwatches. These frankens appeared immediately when the SM300 prices skyrocketed. It's sometimes weird why some specific watch models become so desirable. I believe that model will climb in price even more. Just like the vintage GMT Master you purchased (that's definitely a keeper). I still don't know the reason why the Rolex nuts don't consider them so "collectable". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 These frankens appeared immediately when the SM300 prices skyrocketed. Odd, that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Yeah, I've heard the collectors are paying crazy prices for those now. And like you say, the problem is that most of the "genuine" SM300's are more or less frankenwatches. Glad I kept my all original 165-024... Perhaps it's time to put it in the ol' safe deposit box... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Randy, Don't get rid of your 165-024 It's sure to increase in value. By-Tor, You are right, it stays!! There is quite a lot of buzz on the VintageRolex forum right now about all the transitional models. It has all the good points of the 1675 as well as having the quickset movement. Also it seems as though the vintage Rolex owners are all scared to death that Rolex is going to completely shut off repairs and parts to anything +30 years old. That said, the transitionals still have a tiny bit of breathing room. I sort of wish that mine was oe of the earlier Matte dial with plain indices instrad of the metal surrounds, but eventually the older ones if thay need to be redialed are going to get the later version dial. Arthur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Odd, that Yes, it's quite odd because no "pure" fakes surfaced. Just franken-Omegas. They're not fakes in the purest sense. I don't know exactly what models they're using as base when they forge them. @Ubi: Yes indeed. That's a keeper for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 They're not fakes in the purest sense. I don't know exactly what models they're using as base when they forge them. @Ubi: Yes indeed. That's a keeper for sure. The movements for both the date and non-date were used in a wide variety of contemporary Omega watches, including other Seamaster variations. The only way to confirm the provenance of a vintage Seamaster 300 is to contact Omega, quoting the movement number and they can provide the original case number and country of import. This will establish whether this movement was originally fitted to a SM300 or other style of watch and which distribution network it was supplied to…..particularly relevant if the watch is purporting to be a British Royal Navy issue, or whatever. I have a mint ‘vintage’ 300 (date), built by Watchco from NOS parts and it’s a keeper for sure. If anyone is interested in a modern version of this watch, with an ETA movement, check out Timefactors.co.uk. Eddie Platt’s Precista is a recreation of this watch with the correct bezel and bezel insert, manufactured in Germany by ‘Fricker’ who also manufactured Timefactor’s Dreadnought. The build quality is impeccable and a NOS case / bezel etc were used as a pattern for the Precista model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turkey Posted October 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Thanks for all the additional replies. I appreciate all the information. I'm not sure if it was here or another forum where it was mentioned that there were at least 3 bezel variations. I have seen the flat-topped 4 and rounded versions. But haven't been able to verify any others. Arthur, would you mind if I PM to get your opinion on a watch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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