txcollector Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Folks, for those of you jumping on the bandwagon of the Swiss movement because you think it's better be careful. The SW200 has a know problem: tooth stripping on the hatchet wheel. This is specially bad with models that have a screw in crown since you will be in fact winding the watch as you screw the crown. If the main spring is fully wound then you really have a problem. Sellita has provided a fix with the SW200-1 so you see a flood of SW200 in reps now. So think twice to pay a premium for a movement that will spread gear teeth all over your jewels. Sellita has redesigned the wheel (sw200-1) but fixing the sw200 requires replacing a number of parts. http://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/need-replace-ratchet-wheel-sellita-sw200-movement-will-any-2824-type-ratchet-wheel-work-541495.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmj Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Thank you for sharing TX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Great info TX, Thanks for the heads up! You probably have saved a lot of people as long as they read your update! Cheers Mate, MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 ... teeth all over your jewels. Well there are times when this is desire able but this is not one of them. Very informative post. Thanks for the heads up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Wow, thanks, P! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 I disagree. The sellita is designed like the ETA. The main spring's bridle is designed in such a way that it can't be over wound. Also most of our reps (if not all) that have a screw down crown have a clutch mechanism in the crown which prevents the movement form being hand wound when you screw down the crown. So the ratchet can't break? Sure it can! IMO only two things can cause it. 1. Metal fatigue, read: poor production/ quality. Judging from all the complaints this most likely is the case. 2. Broken or malfunctioning main spring bridle due to rust or lack of proper grease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted December 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 I disagree. The sellita is designed like the ETA. The main spring's bridle is designed in such a way that it can't be over wound. Also most of our reps (if not all) that have a screw down crown have a clutch mechanism in the crown which prevents the movement form being hand wound when you screw down the crown. So the ratchet can't break? Sure. Only two things can cause it. 1. Metal fatigue, read poor production. Judging from all the complaints this most likely is the case. 2. Broken or malfunctioning main spring bridle due to rust or lack of proper grease. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they have a defective clutch, just saying that the strain adds to the problem. Also when you are screwing in the crown the winding gear turns the hatched wheel and this is a problem for the SW200. Just read the Sellita service manuals. They admit the SW200 hatched wheel was badly designed, fragile and prone to damage (well since the Sellita is a clone of the ETA 2824-2, just like the Asians, bad designed parts are not a surprise). They have redesigned it with the SW200-1 and you can in fact make your SW200 into a SW200-1 if you replace a bunch of gears. So you can see why the SW200 rejects will be cheaply available for the rep factories. The Invicta forums have tons of threads with folks complaining about their SW200 crapping out. This is not a newly discovered issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sul Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Thanks, very good to know that! BTW I twas thinking to ask some time ago regarding watches with screw in crown - since you will be winding the watch as you screw the crown...usually manual wind for 7750 or any self winding mechanical movement is not recommended .... are all reps with screw in crowns less reliable, no matter what movement inside?? You not suppose to wind it manually but you will wind it manually when you screw in crown anyway . Even with 6497 movement it is difficult to screw crown in if fully winded, not even difficult-sometimes impossible...movement is already fully winded but you have to wind it slightly more when you screw crown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Thanks, very good to know that! BTW I twas thinking to ask some time ago regarding watches with screw in crown - since you will be winding the watch as you screw the crown...usually manual wind for 7750 or any self winding mechanical movement is not recommended .... are all reps with screw in crowns less reliable, no matter what movement inside?? You not suppose to wind it manually but you will wind it manually when you screw in crown anyway . Even with 6497 movement it is difficult to screw crown in if fully winded, not even difficult-sometimes impossible...movement is already fully winded but you have to wind it slightly more when you screw crown in. Read further than just the first post Also most of our reps (if not all) that have a screw down crown have a clutch mechanism in the crown which prevents the movement form being hand wound when you screw down the crown. So if you push the crown down you disengage it from the stem which will lead to only screwing down the crown and leaving the stem unmoved. Ergo not winding the movement because the stem that engages the keyless works doesn´t move. But if you do feel the movement hand winding while screwing down the crown that means a. the clutch inside the crown is broken or b. the stem is too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sul Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Read further than just the first post Also most of our reps (if not all) that have a screw down crown have a clutch mechanism in the crown which prevents the movement form being hand wound when you screw down the crown. So if you push the crown down you disengage it from the stem which will lead to only screwing down the crown and leaving the stem unmoved. Ergo not winding the movement because the stem that engages the keyless works doesn´t move. But if you do feel the movement hand winding while screwing down the crown that means a. the clutch inside the crown is broken or b. the stem is too short. Thanks Rolexman , seems like all my rep watches with small stem flaw`s, even these what are serviced , if I will screw down crown - I can hear that "winding sound", every one of my rep watches with screw down crown will do that. Winding sound is quite silent but it is definitely there. ps) sry , my questions are not directly involved with SW200 movement`s, but hopefully it is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigarben Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I have a Tissot Seastar 1000 with a 2824 ETA and I can fill it winding every time I screw down the crown. I also have 2 Invicta watches with the SW200 in them and they screw down easily with no winding. Guess it all depends on the quality of the workman ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted December 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I also have 2 Invicta watches with the SW200 in them and they screw down easily with no winding. do you know if those are SW200-1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mt666tm Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I have the PP Aquanaut with SW200 for well over a year now and i hand wind it all the time. When fully wound and you overwind the mainspring clutch engages. All teeth are good on the visible gears, so is this problem rare... or did I just get a good one... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Sounds like a watch will need to have one or more of four problems for this to take place: 1...A crown that does not uncouple (usually causing trouble on manual wind movements). 2...Low quality winding wheels. 3...Too much friction somewhere in the winding train on automatics. 4...Too much hand winding on automatics. Manual wind eta 2801 has a slightly different winding setup (stronger because of more teeth) where the auto version has staggered teeth on one of the winding wheels. When reversers etc get dry or gummed up it takes a lot of pressure to get hand winding power all the way to the mainspring. The faster you wind a watch the worse it gets, sometimes to the point of breaking a stem or crown post. You can see the staggered teeth were carried over to the sellita in the picture, this is probably what is chewing the teeth off. Newer etas also have a hub on the stem that rubs against the outer plate to prevent wearing the pilot seat on the mainplate if the crown does not uncouple properly. Genuine etas do not seem to suffer from a low quality winding assembly although 2824 style reversers will give trouble sooner or later if not cleaned/oiled now and then. A 2801 etc manual wind will break something sooner or later if you wind it all the way up then screw the crown down against a lot of resistance when the crown does not uncouple properly, usually directly related to how many turns the crown takes to tighten up. This is also important on genuine rolex manual wind movements as they can strip teeth off winding wheels and the parts are geting very hard to get. Something else you do not want on any movement with a screw down crown is a stem that is too long causing the stem to bind up inside the movement and damage something. I never cared much for asian or swiss etaclones anyway...fish bones, dirt, and hair in asianetaclones and not many parts for sellitaetaclones. The best fix is a genuine eta in good condition imho. I used to feel dumb about gathering up eta 2824/36 movements when they were cheap, but not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraExtra Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Does anyone know if the SW200 craps out for whatever reason, can the ETA 2824-2 movement be swapped in? or what other movements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Does anyone know if the SW200 craps out for whatever reason, can the ETA 2824-2 movement be swapped in? or what other movements? Direct swap for ETA or clone 2824-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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