Watchmeister Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 You are bound to get irrelevant and fabricated comments... It also affects our relationship. That's just plain stupid. Do the dealers think we're five years old? How the f*ck will posting QC pictures affect our relationship? Next time we are ready to pay them 350 $ for a replica they're going to say: "No way, our relationship is deeply affected!" Give me a break... I will post my QC pictures wherever I like. Just change the file name and blur the stick-ons with the number on them. There is an element of truth to those words. But the other side is that when you are looking for a 3rd set of QC pics because someone has noticed a non-existent problem you may find their receptivity to your order is gone. It does happen. When members have written to complain for a situation like that I tell them to go find another dealer. The most important thing is that you use some common sense. Know what you are buying. If you have genuine concerns try a knowledgeable member first and then post up the pics on the forum if you are not satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 OK, As someone who has been around for almost as long as forums have existed, my take on this is that they (QC pics) are not only a waste of time...(Do you know the watch you are shown is what you will receive?)...but they are also really against what this hobby is all about. The reason we have so many "experts" is that they took the time to study various dealers photos, and make their own comparisons with the gens. So if the next generation are going to lean on them to tell them the faults, then who will be around when Gen Z appears? ( To analyze the faults) It seems that some are unwilling to do their own homework, and be happy with their decision. Maybe thats why this world is in such a mess? Make your own decision, after having done your due diligence, and be happy with it. And maybe read my sig...I've had it now, in various forms, for 10 years around these parts. Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 QC pics're for pussies As in the above comments, do your research, put in the legwork, and make your decision based on dealer stock photos. You know what your chosen model of watch should look like, the dealer should not be sending out junk or the wrong thing, so just pull the trigger If something is glaringly wrong, the dealers will work with you to resolve the issue (and remember issues arise even with gen goods of all kinds) If minute details on dinnerplate-size macros bother you that much, buy a gen Reasonable expectations are usually met with reasonable results in this game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 QC pics're for pussies Hey TJ! Can I use that in my siggy? ( Hate to be accused of plagiarism ) Thats the facts folks. O/S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Hey TJ! Can I use that in my siggy? ( Hate to be accused of plagiarism ) Thats the facts folks. O/S By all means, it would be an honor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmb Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Personally I can see some wisdom behind posting and nit-picking QC pics of a high-end/high dollar rep that is being hyped as 1:1, made from disassembled gen, blah, blah, blah. OTOH, nit-picking QC pics for a $29 Silix Special is absurd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Personally I can see some wisdom behind posting and nit-picking QC pics of a high-end/high dollar rep that is being hyped as 1:1, made from disassembled gen, blah, blah, blah. OTOH, nit-picking QC pics for a $29 Silix Special is absurd! For sure, there's definitely a matter of perspective to take into account, I just think how folks would be prepared to order other goods off the net, even high end stuff like audio equipment, but wouldn't dream of asking the vendor for a photo of their exact purchase Personally, I think if a person needs to see a QC pic of a high dollar watch (which they know what it should look like) they need to find another dealer, as they clearly don't trust the abilities of the one they are in talks with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbjoer Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Guys, as far as I know every dealer who supplies QC pics makes the same request not to share pics. If you have genuine concerns about your watch share them with a knowledgeable friend if possible or post them up on the forum. Agree. One such genuine concern might be: "Am I missing something?" Edited December 31, 2011 by mbjoer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 OK, As someone who has been around for almost as long as forums have existed, my take on this is that they (QC pics) are not only a waste of time...(Do you know the watch you are shown is what you will receive?)...but they are also really against what this hobby is all about. Unfortunately, this is no longer a hobby. People still have to do their due diligence to pick the right model. However factory runs for the more popular pieces are in the thousands and when it comes to the standard reps the big dealers are selling hundreds of one particular model or another per month and with too little manpower. So without the QC pics I am convinced that at least some of the dealers have no idea what they are sending. IMHO, it is now a necessary sanity check for any dealer other than those who still actually check everything that goes out themselves. Also the dealers want it as well as it abrogates some of their responsibility. So I don't see QC pics going away. And in truth I wouldn't buy a standard rep without them - but that is just me. I have always gotten what was pictured and on more than one occasion I would have been unhappy if I hadn't requested a replacement piece. So long live QC pics. I am a happier pussy for it and saved myself at least a couple hundred bucks in shipping costs to China. Hey wait a minute, that is another rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Unfortunately, this is no longer a hobby. People still have to do their due diligence to pick the right model. However factory runs for the more popular pieces are in the thousands and when it comes to the standard reps the big dealers are selling hundreds of one particular model or another per month and with too little manpower. So without the QC pics I am convinced that at least some of the dealers have no idea what they are sending. IMHO, it is now a necessary sanity check for any dealer other than those who still actually check everything that goes out themselves. Also the dealers want it as well as it abrogates some of their responsibility. So I don't see QC pics going away. And in truth I wouldn't buy a standard rep without them - but that is just me. I have always gotten what was pictured and on more than one occasion I would have been unhappy if I hadn't requested a replacement piece. So long live QC pics. I am a happier pussy for it and saved myself at least a couple hundred bucks in shipping costs to China. Hey wait a minute, that is another rep. Sure, it's a business for them, but it's just a hobby for us QC is their job, not ours, so why take the onus off of them? I think back in the day when Eurotimes started the QC pics, it was a nice little touch, a nice way of saying "This is your watch, many are like it, but this one is yours" but for people to now be posting the pics up and soliciting opinions, IMHO, that's just overkill and shows people as either nervous buyers, or not fully informed of what the model should look like/unable to make their own call on the watch Afterall, the buyer is the one who's going to be wearing it, it's only their view of the watch which matters, not flaws other eyes may pick out If someone gets the pics, and thinks "This is okay..." only to be told details are wrong, they may then get back to the dealer requesting another model, more QC pics, only to then maybe repeat the process a few times, well, I can see a dealer getting frustrated by that pretty quickly, but hey, that's just my .2c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 There is an interesting point where you see a divide between older and newer schools. I have talked about it from a different angle, but on the QC photos for pussies point. I don't ask for them. I trust my dealer to hunt through the pile for good pieces. I have not been disappointed. I have ordered for friends who aren't on the board (although now I just tell them to order from Josh because it's too much of a hassle) sometimes they have asked for photos. Even on those orders, I didn't ask for QC photos. It goes back to a good part of the fun is in the hunt and chase. I mean, if your wealthy, unless your chasing pateks what fun is it to call diamonds international and order 40k in watches, they are going to be perfect. I love super reps, cause mods get out of control fast, but, the thrill of the hunt, is only in the straps these days, that's what the boards were about. It's kind of boring if we all get the same 90% accurate Pam 111. What are we talking about? 5 days delivery or 14? Not for nothing but the modded pieces I see for sale are just silly. 100$ reps asking 700$. But it may be a symptom of the hunt issue - that and an explosion in modding services and strap makers. (someone told me once the board wasn't for making $$ - whatever there are at least 20 people running businesses here) but seriously, in the old days, resumes were night and day - today? Eh not that much. AR is a must for me. Servicing? You can buy 3 Asian movements for what it costs to service one. (a 3 yr job) There has always been useless services here - my opinion is mine and what's important to you is whatever. But, i can see where some of it has arisen to fill the void left by the watches coming ready to wear. I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Unfortunately, this is no longer a hobby. People still have to do their due diligence to pick the right model. However factory runs for the more popular pieces are in the thousands and when it comes to the standard reps the big dealers are selling hundreds of one particular model or another per month and with too little manpower. So without the QC pics I am convinced that at least some of the dealers have no idea what they are sending. IMHO, it is now a necessary sanity check for any dealer other than those who still actually check everything that goes out themselves. Also the dealers want it as well as it abrogates some of their responsibility. So I don't see QC pics going away. And in truth I wouldn't buy a standard rep without them - but that is just me. I have always gotten what was pictured and on more than one occasion I would have been unhappy if I hadn't requested a replacement piece. So long live QC pics. I am a happier pussy for it and saved myself at least a couple hundred bucks in shipping costs to China. Hey wait a minute, that is another rep. I believe we are now talking about two seperate things. The first is an ID photo, taken by the seller, for perusal by the buyer, to assure both parties they understand what each is talking about. Have no problems with that, its only plain sense. However the recent rash of QC photos, purporting to be of the very watch the client is getting is just silly. And even sillier when a noob displays said photo on a forum, and asks the membership to pick it apart. I'm sure a macro photo of some gens will show some insignificant issue that cannot be seen with the naked eye, yet here we are not only condoning this practice, we are encouraging it. It may be acceptable by a few of the anal retentives we have around, but it sends the wrong message to buyers IMO. No wonder the dealers are asking buyers not to put photos up on the forums. I'll bet their strike rate in sending out the original photographed watch is extremely low. Or maybe they have a photo of a "perfect" example to show to every buyer? Which is probably a lot closer to the truth! Don't forget Little White Lies. Offshore PS. And NO, i don't do QC pics of tools! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I believe we are now talking about two seperate things. The first is an ID photo, taken by the seller, for perusal by the buyer, to assure both parties they understand what each is talking about. Have no problems with that, its only plain sense. However the recent rash of QC photos, purporting to be of the very watch the client is getting is just silly. And even sillier when a noob displays said photo on a forum, and asks the membership to pick it apart. I'm sure a macro photo of some gens will show some insignificant issue that cannot be seen with the naked eye, yet here we are not only condoning this practice, we are encouraging it. It may be acceptable by a few of the anal retentives we have around, but it sends the wrong message to buyers IMO. No wonder the dealers are asking buyers not to put photos up on the forums. I'll bet their strike rate in sending out the original photographed watch is extremely low. Or maybe they have a photo of a "perfect" example to show to every buyer? Which is probably a lot closer to the truth! Don't forget Little White Lies. Offshore PS. And NO, i don't do QC pics of tools! Precisely As I metioned in my first post in this thread, and is probably common knowledge from my general posts, I have 0% trust in the 'forum trusted' dealers. They have never given me anything but lies, poorly QCd items, and misrepresented items (LWLs) to others, and yet the off-forum dealers have always managed to come up with the goods (as far as I'm concerned) sure, they may not be 1:1 Super Reps, but that's not why I play the game, that's not what does it for me: Name correctly spelled, hands, and a within -/+ 10 s per 24 hrs = Happy TeeJay... I don't need to see a QC pic to trust a dealer enough to place an order, and I think it's sad that folks need that confirmation, not against the dealer, but that they themselves are that demanding/suspicious/uncertain of what they're ordering, that they need the spoonfeeding Let's see some cojones here, amigos, roll the die and pull the trigger, but step up to the plate and make the call yourselves As before, if you want perfection (which appears so, given the need for feedback on QC pics) buy a gen, then try writing to the AD and telling them that the hour marker is .5mm out, or that the date wheel doesn't roll over bang on midnight and see how far that gets you (other than laughed out of the shop ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelizer Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Recently I've seen QC pics from TD's of things that I would never approve because it has been examples that has not satisfied me at all.. Not because they have been way off their gen counterparts, but because the factory has been sloppy - period. Missing paint on hands and uneven lume on dials.. I have not shared the QC pics on the forum - only with close friends who knows their stuff (just to make sure I was not too nit picking).. One TD made three attempts (and failed on all three) and the next one hit the nail after just one attempt.. Conclusion: some TD's check the stuff before taking/ sending QC pics, some does not.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I was personally astonished when I popped back up to see QC pics. I haven't seen enough to have an opinion on there authenticity, but I know lots of dealers drop shipped. QC pics makes that tuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Recently I've seen QC pics from TD's of things that I would never approve because it has been examples that has not satisfied me at all.. Not because they have been way off their gen counterparts, but because the factory has been sloppy - period. Missing paint and uneven lume.. I have not shared the QC pics on the forum - only with close friends who knows their stuff (just to make sure I was not too nit picking).. One TD made three attempts (and failed on all three) and the next one hit the nail after just one attempt.. Conclusion: some TD's check the stuff before taking QC pics, some does not.. Totally understandable, but what I'm pointing out, is had there been no QC pics, if you had just received the watch from the first set of pics, would you really have rejected the watch? Or would you just have accepted it as a rep in possible need of a relume mod (or even just lived with the factory lume?) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelizer Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Totally understandable, but what I'm pointing out, is had there been no QC pics, if you had just received the watch from the first set of pics, would you really have rejected the watch? Or would you just have accepted it as a rep in possible need of a relume mod (or even just lived with the factory lume?) ? I get what you're saying TJ. In this particular case I would have sent it for a relume (for yet another €60 + shipping). Even though this is a watch that does come with great super lume from the CN factory.. But this time I got a refund and the other dealer picked a nice example right from the start! Happy new year gents - now this fellow addict needs to get a couple of hours sleep.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 An interesting twist to this saga. A couple of days ago I've ordered a watch on one of the trusted dealers' sites. Right after I posted here, on this thread, I have also received an email from the dealer asking not to post the QC pictures. I didn't have the need to post those pictures, because the watch was rather simple, but in my mind I've decided that I'll need to rethink the way I buy from this dealer. And that was it. And now to the twist: browsing through the dealer's site today I've checked the watch I've ordered looking for some information I needed, and what do I see? New QC pictures for that model: QC pictures of my future watch. The ones he, so politely, asked me not to post. This really sums this discussion for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormTooper4 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 An interesting twist to this saga. And now to the twist: browsing through the dealer's site today I've checked the watch I've ordered looking for some information I needed, and what do I see? New QC pictures for that model: QC pictures of my future watch. The ones he, so politely, asked me not to post. This really sums this discussion for me. What are you saying ???, this makes no sense what so ever. If you are no longer buying the watch from the dealer because of QC pics , its just proves his point entirely , this thread is utterly illogical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I thought Mary started the QC photo craze; not Chris. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I think the 1st QC pics floated around as purely QC items, were of the early WM9 Subs. I clearly remember getting a price & a pic of a watch for a mate. He went over it with a micrometer and found the 12 marker to be out by 0.01mm (or something equally as silly), ( And not taking into account it may have been photographed on an angle.) When i asked for another watch and photo, the answer was "I don't think I want to sell a watch to your mate!" End of story. That did happen a couple or three years back. Don't think a lot changes. Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 What are you saying ???, this makes no sense what so ever. If you are no longer buying the watch from the dealer because of QC pics , its just proves his point entirely , this thread is utterly illogical No, this is not what I'm saying. I'm really glad the dealers provide such a service and given the nature of this hobby, I will always prefer a dealer who provides it. A trusted dealer on this board has my absolute confidence, and I feel I don't need to protect myself or my money. In that specific case I've just sent him the money directly via WU, no questions asked, and I was confident that I would receive a good product. What makes me uncomfortable is restrictions like the one discussed in this thread. They make me anxious about the transaction and feel that the dealer has something to hide, which takes all the fun out, so to speak. I can sum the little twist I had with this purchase this way: if I'm asked not to post the pictures in an (probably automated/copy-pasted) email and then the dealer posts the QC images himself, I, personally, can not take his email remarks seriously. In the future if I'll need to post these images on any board to get an advise, I probably will. But, hey, it's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I get what you're saying TJ. In this particular case I would have sent it for a relume (for yet another €60 + shipping). Even though this is a watch that does come with great super lume from the CN factory.. But this time I got a refund and the other dealer picked a nice example right from the start! Happy new year gents - now this fellow addict needs to get a couple of hours sleep.. Sounds like a good result An interesting twist to this saga. A couple of days ago I've ordered a watch on one of the trusted dealers' sites. Right after I posted here, on this thread, I have also received an email from the dealer asking not to post the QC pictures. I didn't have the need to post those pictures, because the watch was rather simple, but in my mind I've decided that I'll need to rethink the way I buy from this dealer. And that was it. And now to the twist: browsing through the dealer's site today I've checked the watch I've ordered looking for some information I needed, and what do I see? New QC pictures for that model: QC pictures of my future watch. The ones he, so politely, asked me not to post. This really sums this discussion for me. That's certainly an interesting twist, and I must admit, one which makes me slightly uncomfortable... Sure, the site stock photos are showing a representation of the watch model being ordered, not the specific piece, and I totally understand that. And I can also appreciate that a dealer will update their stock photos from time to time as new issues of the watch are released, again, I have no issue with that. But the idea of a dealer using a client's QC photos as site stock photos makes me somewhat uncomfortable, as if they are prepared to use QC photos as new stock photos, what is to stop them using a new stock photo as a QC photo, and then telling people not to post them on the forum so people don't see that the same pics are being used... As before, I'm happy to order off the strength of a stock photo and rely on the dealer's operational systems to ensure I receive the correct piece, but that's just me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 If people really believe that QC pics are of random watches rather than the watch they are sending than it may be a waste of time - or maybe not. In my own most recent experience with an AP I was sent the pics - the screws looked like crap. I rejected it and 3 days later got a new set of pics. I accepted based on those pics and of course I can't tell you it is the exact watch in the pictures But I can tell you the screws lined up with the pics both in terms of how they were set into the case and even which screw had a slightly skewed screwdriver slot. I got what I expected. If I had gotten the first watch I saw I would have been out $500 and unhappy. I had a similar experience with a PAM where I rejected it because it looked like the dial was off in terms of how it was set into the case. The new pics and the watch clearly had it in straight. So with a total of $800 invested with 2 different dealers I am grateful for QC pics. I will never be able to prove to anyone it is exactly the same watch but if all it did was to make the dealer make sure the one I was receiving was in better shape than what he was initially proposing to send - than QC pics achieved my objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 If people really believe that QC pics are of random watches rather than the watch they are sending than it may be a waste of time - or maybe not. In my own most recent experience with an AP I was sent the pics - the screws looked like crap. I rejected it and 3 days later got a new set of pics. I accepted based on those pics and of course I can't tell you it is the exact watch in the pictures But I can tell you the screws lined up with the pics both in terms of how they were set into the case and even which screw had a slightly skewed screwdriver slot. I got what I expected. If I had gotten the first watch I saw I would have been out $500 and unhappy. I had a similar experience with a PAM where I rejected it because it looked like the dial was off in terms of how it was set into the case. The new pics and the watch clearly had it in straight. So with a total of $800 invested with 2 different dealers I am grateful for QC pics. I will never be able to prove to anyone it is exactly the same watch but if all it did was to make the dealer make sure the one I was receiving was in better shape than what he was initially proposing to send - than QC pics achieved my objective. All the time QC pics are legit, then I think that they do serve a purpose, and are a nice service for the dealer to provide. But. I don't think people should be having to post them for scrutiny, rather than trusting their own judgement on a purchase. Equally, I wouldn't want the QC pics to fall into the same little white lies trap that dealer offered 'waterproofing' was found to be, as that would just be counter productive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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