fotoman Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 As one of the most senior counsel 1. Escrow, nice idea but dead on start for offshore's reasons. 2. I was thinking more of rules like on rwi they have that picture rule. Not specifically that, but just a recommendation of "best practices". We would be in no more legal jeopardy than we are currently. 3. Re dealers not taking pp. that has been an issue for the ages. For a few years dealers couldnt do paypal cause they kept getting their accounts shut down. But, remember that 95% of forum members dint post. Dealers would leave way to much $$ on the table to lose paypal again. But thats a paypal issue not a dealer one. My other thought was 1 step removed from the best practices which is the horror story thread. That removes any hint of liability (at least no more than now) cause someone who was [censored] can't say, well I followed the rules. As a business plan, I think your own escrow is a bad idea. For 1, you need to live in an undeveloped country to keep it 2. Banks will not be cool with it. 3. Having see what happens with group buys, group AR, and other group activities, they turn out bad more often than not. For at least someone. And, the margins are not there to make it make any sense, unless your in an undeveloped country and 50$ a day is worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wat44 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 if every idea is taken down - then I really cant see the point of whinging about the current problems find a solution, or accept the shortcomings of the status quo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 It all comes back to: "Buy the Seller, and Vet the Buyer". This is why I will NOT sell to members with no/low posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 if every idea is taken down - then I really cant see the point of whinging about the current problems find a solution, or accept the shortcomings of the status quo! Nothing personal, it's just your idea would cause some increased liability (I'm a lawyer) your free to open a business. But I was just stating my experience with trying to do things here as a group. It's q good idea. But would work better with gens:) and I've dealt with setting up companies with 3 different international banks. We kept getting shot down because of need to accept international $$. We finally got a deal in place, but dealing with a straight up legal business, I can only imagine the headaches with this venture. I really don't have a good answer. That's why I suggested it. If someone. Came up with a procedure or Guideline maybe we could recommend or have additional rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 And besides Offshore would buy rum with my $300 not scotch Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wat44 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 lol Ken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 And besides Offshore would buy rum with my $300 not scotch Yep, wouldnya know it Ken, my supplier who gives me 3 months of white rum at a time is just due to top me up again now, and I would need every bit of your $300! O/S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wat44 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 white? I thought it was Bundy when I was there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Being a scotch man myself I have no sympathy for you A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 white? I thought it was Bundy when I was there? Unobservant prick! Beenleigh not Bundy. Bundy gives me asthma. O/S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCorvette Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 so look at this scenario: I have a gen Omega PO and a franken. I use the gen to post ad pictures on some forum but I send you a franken. At first you can't really tell but then when you try to send to service you learn you have been had. Then you come after me with the Feds to get your money back. It happens that I have "documented" that I have shipped you the gen PO, down to pictures showing me packing and labeling (the same label I sent you as tracking with signature) the watch. However what I did was actually replace the watch before actually shipping. Now you go, take me to court and win based on my word against yours. I can claim you made the switch and you are trying to scam me. I'll be then the one sending the Feds after you. In theory all the laws and regulations look good until you have to actually prove something. Believe me financial institutions go thru a LOT of cost to document and prosecute fraud. Do you think the Feds will go after a $3K maybe bank wire fraud? Sorry to burst your bubble but you will be out of not only the original scam but also court costs. You make an excellent point here about burden of proof.. Having worked in the Shipping industry for many years and having personally handled Million dollar product shipments I can tell you that using a bank wire is only one of many layers of protection I normally employ. There are many ways to leave a nearly unchallengable trail of proof of integrity in the shipping process. As far as receiving product goes.. the receiver is charged with inspecting the product for defect when the product is received. What alot of people don't understand is when they sign for a package they are releasing responsibility and accepting the product as being in good acceptable condition.. depends on the legal structure of the shipping documents. If it's your money on the line during a purchase .. escrow and watch shipped to an Authorized Dealer for inspection before acceptance on higher value watches would be the way to go. Shipping to an AD while selling is also an option .. the AD can confirm you shipped an authentic watch at which point a receiving scammer would be S.O.L... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 You make an excellent point here about burden of proof.. Having worked in the Shipping industry for many years and having personally handled Million dollar product shipments I can tell you that using a bank wire is only one of many layers of protection I normally employ. There are many ways to leave a nearly unchallengable trail of proof of integrity in the shipping process. As far as receiving product goes.. the receiver is charged with inspecting the product for defect when the product is received. What alot of people don't understand is when they sign for a package they are releasing responsibility and accepting the product as being in good acceptable condition.. depends on the legal structure of the shipping documents. If it's your money on the line during a purchase .. escrow and watch shipped to an Authorized Dealer for inspection before acceptance on higher value watches would be the way to go. Shipping to an AD while selling is also an option .. the AD can confirm you shipped an authentic watch at which point a receiving scammer would be S.O.L... One thing I have always said about the forum is, anyone would be surprised as to the various levels of expertise we have. Lawyers doctors logistics. You don't know till you ask. and since I have met and dined with members in Florida, Hawaii and portugal, I can tell you that if we didn't all have a level of anonymity here, it would be a wild wacky place for sure Now as far as who is ordering what booze, I don't need a case, but if you can get 1 of double proof coconut rum (crazy sugar addict) I'll be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 ppal protects buyer, not seller Which is why I use gift payment for both selling and purchasing watches. Like someone else said above, it is essentially like a "good faith" electronic bank transfer. No one is protected. The buyer cannot file a claim against a seller when they use the gift payment. This of course, comes back to what Ronin and many others have said "Buy the seller". You need to know well in advance who it is that you are entering into this "good faith" transaction. This subject is also the reason the Admin Team posted a "How to deal with sellers" post which is currently pinned in the GD section. Or you can just click here BUT...... to the OP. That is just disgusting! I cannot imagine why on earth anyone would require that the item be destroyed! In reading that article, the latest update did show that Paypal was looking into the claim. I truly hope they resolve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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