Serafino Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Say for the sake of discussion that there was a dial maker who was interested in providing an oft-requested vintage Explorer design, and was looking for feedback on what exactly to have made. What would you nominate for a "most desireable" dial? I'm away from my collected photos but to start things off (and admitting in advance my utter lack of expertise about these things) I'll offer up this apparently original dial from 1970, watch S/No 298xxxx. It strikes me as a nice model for a 'straight' explorer dial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 Yes, the 'frog' dial is certainly a good possibility. It's called 'frog' because the Rolex crown on the dial looks like a frog's foot- center spike is slightly longer. Earlier gilt dials are also a good candidate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCorvette Posted January 27, 2012 Report Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'd vote for a desirable Explorer that's not already being offered by someone.. like this Model 5700 Explorer Date.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 The problem is that a good, basic Explorer dial is not being sold by anyone. If I could choose representative dials for the 1016's long history, it would be an early-60s gilt (but no minute track--that's more of a pre-1016 hallmark), an early-70s Frog per the OP, and a mid-1980s example with superfine print quality and serifs everywhere. But if I had to choose just one, it would be the Frog--with its hazy, low-contrast text and slab serifs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praetor Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) for the sake of the discussion of course the dial that Ian Fleming originally wore in case you were wondering what ever happened to that project, I shelved it away due to snow/ freezing temperatures and lack of time in general Edited January 28, 2012 by praetor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Oh, fine... Let's have the minute track on the gilt, then. As long as I get one from the first batch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serafino Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hi Praetor, I was wondering about your project. I hope you are able to return to it. Is there an actual photo of the Fleming watch dial before it was replaced? I've seen photos of Deaton's watch, with track minutes, mistakenly referred to as being the actual Fleming watch, but the Fleming watch is always pictured with a replacement dial with no track from what I've seen (even in the 'envelope' picture from the Centenary celebration). Did all Explorers made around 1960 have "chapter ring"/track minute dials? Anyway Fleming was probably wearing an Elgin or something when he wrote most of the novels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praetor Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) oh that yea, I screwed up 3 of the dials trying to lume it, and gave one away to jmb. Then work and winter caught up with me. I spray paint these outside and padprinting requires good ventilation (i'm doing this in my basement). There is evidence that my style of dial is the one ian fleming was wearing: http://www.hodinkee....serial-num.html but this is probably after he wrote all the books since it is made in the 1960s. There's very few examples of this dial in particular. I've only managed to procure 2 images of it while prowling through vrf and antiquorum. Edited January 28, 2012 by praetor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebzen02 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Would love a guilt Exp. dial.. Definitely would build another JMB exp with one of those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 There's very few examples of this dial in particular. I've only managed to procure 2 images of it while prowling through vrf and antiquorum. I've got a few more pictures of that transitional, tracked dial in my HD. Let me know if you need them. (No prizes for guessing where that last photo comes from!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 Count my vote in for the Ian Fleming dial! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchguy51 Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I have this 1016 rep... I got it because it was the only one I could find with the proper sized coronet, and I had also seen a gen like it with the thicker numerals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serafino Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 ...and which one is it? ----------------------------- Edited to add some sideline comments: Praetor--the evidence is apparently pretty strong that Fleming had his Explorer while writing OHMSS, after which there were 2 more novels, FWIW. The only explicit reference I've found to the Fleming watch's original dial is this from the MWR forum: James Dowling | 03-03-2010 Hi All; The Explorer on show at the IWM & soon at the NAWCC museum came from Ian Fleming's daughter. It had a stunning high gloss, gilt original dial, when it went to the museum someone checked it with a Geiger counter & discovered that the original dial was a radium one & obviously a danger to the public, so it was sent off to Rolex, London to have a modern Luminova dial fitted in its stead. The original dial was not kept. Sometimes I hang my head & weep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serafino Posted January 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 So it sounds like there is most interest in the following: 1. An early '60s style dial with early-style numerals and a minute track, either gilt or plain; 2. A late '60s / '70s plain 'Explorer' dial, otherwise pretty much the same as the Space-Dweller. Early plain: Early gilt: For the later style, I gather that the 'Frog' style just appeared in the mid '70s, while the late '60s and early '80s crown had a squarer proportion? I kind of like the 'normal' crown for the 'plain Jane' Explorer dial ('83 in this case). Is there a general preference for one or the other? Are there fine points about these dials which our mythical dial maker should be aware of while preparing to make them? I assume that it makes most sense for lume to be white since it can be aged if needed? I was going to include this Ebay auction watch which Deaton talked about recently, but rather than post it as an example of the plain early style 1016 dial I wonder what you all think about the case? Is that a normal early 1016 or has it been polished over to a large degree? It reminds me of earlier cases with its apparently rounded edges and overall polish. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Edited to add side view of the above watch: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 That looks slightly overpolished. Without a side shot, I can't tell, but the fact that the endlinks are taller than the lugs is not a good sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hmmm... I guess the lugs look OK. Something still looks funky. The bezel appears to be slightly tall, and the drilled lugs look huge. Paging 1016 expert, Dr. LHOOQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 You have to excuse my lateness, but I'm dealing with a workplace firewall. iPhone browsing to the rescue... Let me try to address the different points here: -I'm certain watchguy51's rep is from Darth Trevor. Only HIS numerals could be so bold! Seriously... I've never seen those fat numbers on any other rep. -I'm not sure when the Frog dial started showing up, but I've seen one on a 1969. It's definitely most associated with the early to mid-70s. The indistinct and low-contrast white print is something you'll also see on contemporary Sub and Exp II dials. Even black Daytona dials of the early 70s have that same milky look to their printing. Did I mention that this is my favorite dial? -The 80s dials are definitely cleaner, and the 90s service units are super-crisp. However, there are more dial variations than these. I'm sure some Japanese book has cataloged them all. -I don't like Dell Deaton. Comes off as a jerk on the forums. Just thought I'd throw that in. -The case of that bottom 1016 looks good, if a bit slim at the points. Endlink fit is, sadly, not unusual for a 1016/7206 combo. Bezel seems OK, but may look taller due to its beat-up edge and a very buffed crystal. Lughole size may be accentuated by the use of full-length Sub springbars, instead of the shorter bars specific to the 1016. -ChiMan12, who has leafed through a Japanese reference book or two, notes that there are at least two distinct 1016 cases over its long production lifespan. (Very subtle differences, though.) Analogous to the way the Daytona 6263 case became pointier, slimmer, longer as it entered the 1980s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'd take whatever dial being made. Since [censored] LHOOQ doesn't sell any of his Explorers, you can't be too picky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'd take whatever dial being made. Since [censored] LHOOQ doesn't sell any of his Explorers, you can't be too picky. When did the forum software start censoring "handsome"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 When did the forum software start censoring "handsome"? Only when related to your name, mate. See Handsome Akira...works fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 [censored] smartass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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