Pointers on the Art of Sourcing Movements?

[Serafino]

It must be an art, right? At least, if you aren't just paying top dollar for donor watches.

I see a number of "as-is" movements "for parts only" for auction. Some of these are obviously water damaged or inside badly damaged cases. Are the clean-looking ones a good risk? If a watch is running at all is that an indication that for a parts-available movement it's likely a fairly trivial operation for a watchmaker to service it and get it running well?

Or does everyone mostly avoid the obvious risks and buy donor watches which are either NOS or at any rate stated to be running well, etc.?

[ubiquitous]

Sourcing movements can be tricky.

You definitely need to know what to look for and it’s always important to ask your seller questions! Ideally, you want to go with a movement that is aesthetically clean, however that won’t guarantee a proper working caliber, as dry jewels/pivots, gummed up old oil, worn gears etc. aren’t always visible. The movement could be from a watch that is 40 years old (or older) and never serviced once in it’s history. With that said, it’s pretty straight forward to advise one to walk away from a movement that’s rusted and corroded. In addition, I’ve seen some movements that, while very clean were missing some very obvious parts (like balance weights). But that kind of stuff is pretty easy to notice right away.

If you are hunting for a particular movement, have a price set in your mind and then factor in the cost to service. Even if a seller says they know the service history and this XYZ movement has been recently overhauled by his independent watchmaker, that is no guarantee that the service was done right (or even at all). Call me a cynic, but I really only trust a movement to be serviced if I’ve sent it up to the Zigmeister myself. His years of 1^st hand experience and knowledge are what I trust, and he’s never once given me a reason to think otherwise

Also, just because a movement looks a little rough doesn’t mean it’s one to be counted out either. I’ve had pristine movements and I’ve had some less than so, and some of the less pretty examples ran just fine.

Good luck in your endeavors!

[Serafino]

Thank you Ubi! And thanks for the startling string of photos!

[redwatch]

Wow Ubi! Some amazing movement shots there! Always love checking out those pics!!

To the original poster, I find patience factors in greatly on this one. eBay can be tricky, but sometimes saved searches do help as well. Donor watches can be tricky as well as you might end up spending more than necessary. Of course, sometimes you can sell off the case parts etc and make some money back, but that can be tricky as well.

And +1 to what Ubi said about servicing. Definitely factor in some money in the budget for a servicing.

[ubiquitous]

Patience is definitely key!

I wanted to share those pics as it illustrates what I mean. Some are aesthetically brilliant. And some appear to be worn, but in reality they work great.

The 1520 at the beginning of my string was supposedly serviced by the individual that sold it to me, and by an RSC of all places. When I received the watch and movement, it wouldn't run. I had Zig service and it's now within 3 sec/day.

One of my El Primeros (the Movado signed rotor) came in a donor watch that hadn't been opened in such a long time that the caseback gasket had turned to sludge Got the movement serviced as this was a sign that it was probably in need of an overhaul and it's working great for it's current owner...

[danielv2000]

Wow! Great looking shots.

I'm on the hunt for a 1570. I've chickened out of a few in the last several weeks when the bidding went over my budget.

[Serafino]

Two corollary questions:

When buying old ETAs what are the odds of, and range of bad experiences to expect? i.e say I want a movement that was common in the '70s or the '60s. Are 3 out of 4 likely to need major repairs to the tune of, say $300? (Zig tells some sobering stories about watches that have been abused.)

Are there ways to evaluate a movement in hand or is the only way to know its potential to tear it down and have a look (i.e. for me, send it for a service)?

Edited February 15, 2012 by Serafino

[Nanuq]

I had an interesting discussion with my local Rolex AD watchmaker, he has a 1530 movement that when he opened the caseback, was mostly a brown lump of rust. He has restored it nearly 100% and says although most of the pretty plating is off the movement, and there's a tiny bit of rust still to remove deep down in a couple wheels, it runs fine and keeps great time.

Who would have thought it possible!

[tomhorn]

One other hint is to keep a list of the equivalent movements and the watches you find them in.

For example, look at Ubi's Daytona pic above. The Movado and Ebel movements are both able to be used for the same builds.

Not everyone on the Bay knows what they have, so they often don't put the movement description in the ads. Same thing with many pawn shops. Targeting those donor watches is pretty much the only way to find what you need at a decent price these days.

[mrboombasteke]

One other hint is to keep a list of the equivalent movements and the watches you find them in.

For example, look at Ubi's Daytona pic above. The Movado and Ebel movements are both able to be used for the same builds.

Not everyone on the Bay knows what they have, so they often don't put the movement description in the ads. Same thing with many pawn shops. Targeting those donor watches is pretty much the only way to find what you need at a decent price these days.

Good advice.

[Serafino]

Speaking of balance weights--do any ETA movements have them? The movement in my Hamilton, which I believe is supposed to be Elaboré and adjusted in 3 positions, has none.

I am getting the impression that my assumption that 'adjusted' always means balance weights is wrong? What other types of adjustments are done to a movement in the various positions?

[freddy333]

Some may consider the winding rotor to be a weight, but, otherwise, there are generally no weights added to movements.

I would second Ubi's comments & add that, with very few exceptions, a thorough service is pretty universally required for any movement you purchase from an unknown (to you) source.

[ubiquitous]

Speaking of balance weights--do any ETA movements have them? The movement in my Hamilton, which I believe is supposed to be Elaboré and adjusted in 3 positions, has none.

ETA movements don't have balance weights on the balance wheel.

However, movements like a Rolex 1570 does have balance weights; they are along the rim and are placed between the microstellas like so:

However, a balance with screws and weights is just one method implemented to adjust rate. When you have a balance wheel without the weights/screws/microstellas, etc. the adjustment is done via regulating arm.

[Serafino]

Ubi--many thanks! Very helpful, again.