Why The Eta Shortage Is No Problem

[mr1973]

There´s a movement called SW200, made by Sellita in Switzerland.

It's almost exactly the same as the 2824-2, and availability is better. It´s already used by several watch companies, including Meistersinger, Steinhart, Anonimo (!) etc.

AND IT IS NOT ETA! So easy to get in the near future.

http://www.sellita.ch/catalogue/mvts_auto.html

Text i´ve found on the web:

The company lime-of-fonnière reveals two gauges. The litigation with Swatch Group was the release of the process. Christian names: SW 200 and SW 300.

Sellita Watch launches on the market two gauges. “We have the obligation to succeed. We cannot put back us on another thing. We believe in our project, we much invested”, said Miguel Garcia, the director of the company lime-of-fonnière specialized in the assembly of movements. This launching followed upon the litigation which opposed the company to Swatch Group. This one had announced in summer 2002 that it was going to reduce its deliveries of ETA outlines. Last December, Comco (Commission of competition) had decided some differently. Until the end of 2010, ETA will supply its customers normally.

“The business Swatch Group, it is the kick in the fourmillère. There is a research which is done, that creates a dynamics”, notes Miguel Garcia. Conscious of this problem, people of Sellita Watch took their stick of pilgrim to find the suppliers ready to engage in this project.

Swiss partners

Contrary to the generally accepted ideas, Asia did not prove to be cheaper. In the Jurassic Arc, “Swiss suppliers decided to play the game. They brought out the machines of the galetas”, is delighted Miguel Garcia. The volume produced by Sellita Watch, approximately 1 million parts, is certainly not foreign there. The SW 200, for example, is with “more than 95% Swiss made”.

The suppliers of the company lime-of-fonnière wet themselves in the adventure. Employment could benefit from it. Sellita Watch maintained its manpower of 170 people. “Instead of manufacturing the components, we engaged of the suppliers who, them, invest enormously”, Miguel Garcia entrusts. In the five years to come, “a thousand of people could work into external on the project”, estimates the director.

Sellita Watch, on its side, “went up a technical infrastructure and of provisioning of components”. Consequent investments were authorized for machines, control, “the infrastructures of logistics also”, specifies Andreas Deubzer, the director of the operations.

The company also repurchased the building formerly occupied by Festina with the street Cernil-Antoine with the Lime-of-Bottoms.

And customers of Sellita Watch? They “are satisfied of the step and the speed with which that was done. We speak little and work much. Today, we leave wood. The customers were well-informed but there was a very great discretion”, specifies Miguel Garcia.

Automatics

The SW 200 is a gauge of a diameter of 11 ½ with 26 rubies and a reserve of 38 hours walk. Available as of May, it is intended for the segment of means of range at a basic price of 45 frank. The SW 300 will be on the market at the beginning of 2006. It is about a movement of the same diameter with 25 rubies. It will be used for the top-of-the-range segment. Its price will range between 80 and 90 frank. “They have the same gauge as the ETA products”, specifies Miguel Garcia.

Additional information can be found here:

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.ph...highlight=sw200

[NRG]

Where there is a gap in the market somebody will step up and fill it. This is a good example.

Too much emphasis is placed on ETA movements as being a desirable and (cough!) 'Swiss Made' when in reality they are neither!

The last few ETA's I've bought have all had some sort of issue and all have been dirty (maybe I'm not buying from the right source) and yet in my sample of one 21J, it's clean, correctly oiled and keeps good time. There's one in my 'noobmariner' and after 4 weeks it still only gains 2-3 secs a day and has been all over Northern Europe with me and over to the US.

Perhaps the withdrawal of ETA movements is a case of the sooner the better for the industry....?

[Watchmeister]

Thanks for the info. Another movement manufacturer is always a good thing. I am hopeful there will be others. It is interesting that Swatch is pulling out of various segments just as sales of mechanical watches are growing at a substantial rate. Then again ETA movements is such a small percentage of their overall sales it won't matter. As long as there is money in it, new manufacturers wil come and the Seagulls of the world will improve their movements.

And if the "Swiss" are not careful, movements will go the same way as cars (at least in the U.S.). Today the higher end Japanese cars are getting better reliability marks than Mercedes and BMW. Mercedes sales are suffering as other countries and manufacturers get better and better.

[dluddy]

I'm not sure about these. I had an SW200 in a watch Ziggy serviced and it was not impressive....bad gears, etc. Now this could have been a rare one but we swapped it out for an ETA 2824...

Not sure if Ziggy has seen any more of these

[alligoat]

This looks pretty cool! These look to be drop in replacements for the ETA's, using some of their nomenclature even.

I guess that article was translated from French, maybe, pretty rough and difficult to understand some of the phrases.

[RWG Technical]

I did have one of these in for service, the autowinder did not work...

Actually, I still have it in my scrap bin as I could not fix it.

The problem was a defect in that the transfer gear from the autowinder to the mainspring barrel did not engage properly...after much messing around, and swapping ETA parts, I finally gave up and installed a new ETA movement in the watch.

This is the only time I have seen one of these, hopefully mine was a one-off and they are not all defective...

ETA is not the be all to end all, there is a need for good quality mechanical movements, and someone can set up and produce them for the market... ETA not selling to anyone outside of the Swatch group may be their biggest mistake...

Look at the mess Rolex is in today, after the closed all the "Authorized repair centers" and pulled it all in house...sure they continue to sell every watch they make, but there is no one left for the after the sale support and servicing of these watches... Which is why Rolex is supporting schools and encouraging young people to get into the watchmaking trade...they screwed themselves over big time, and are now scrambling to replace the shortfall in people with the skills to repair watches...

I see the Chinese stepping up and filling the hole left by ETA.

RG

[Defender110]

i see the short selling of eta movements as a non issue at least for the forseeable future... remember when they announced for example the stopping of freon for automobile air conditioning service? suppliers mass produced large quantities and a very good alternative also came up, so no one has a broken air conditioner that cannot be serviced today even though many had envisioned catastophy at he time. eta will produce many 2824, 28,36, 2892, 2893 and 7750 movements over the next few years and a steady supply should last for a while before they ALL dry up... the 7753 is another story as it seems they limit sales of this movement already.

[coolfire]

I see the Chinese stepping up and filling the hole left by ETA.

RG

That is absolutely correct, dude... These guys can do just about anything... I mean, look at our reps now...

[sssurfer]

Yes, protectionist measures might have made sense one century ago or so, not in today's global village.

Europe and Switzerland - maybe even US - are out-of-date (and out of reality and out of mind) if they think they can go somewhere by protectionist measures.

Some days ago I was searching some cyclopses on the net, and I found them from a US company @ 17 USD + s/h. I contacted them, and they addressed me to their Italian distributor, which asked me 100 Euro + 50 Euro s/h (192 USD total) for that same lens. Bummer! About 700%x (!). So I asked the US company to buy directly from them , and they did not reply (that is a "NO" in commercial language).

European scandalous (and protectionist) fees, supported by US fellowship...

The result? I am likely going to get those lens(es) through a helpful US member here. And, should this not work as well, I am going to contact Indian and Chinese companies.

It is not really important whether Sellita movements are good or bad: if they are bad, then other companies (most likely from far east) will step in and fill the gap, sooner or later.

It is not really important whether Italian or US companies are going to sell to me what I want: if they don't, then other companies (most likely from far east) will do, sooner or later.

[gran]

Sellita from Switzerland is very interesting and some of their movements are very thin (This is a big pluss)

http://www.sellita.ch/

but looking at their site I am not sure where a ETA stops and an sellita starts

[2005SUBMARINER]

i belive that china can make a better movement than ETA if they wanted too !

[gran]

do they want to?

[sam_tgg]

EU MUST start to do measurenets against chinese, and start to protect our bussiness. It is stupit to give hundred of know-how to the chinese gratis. This theory of "open markets" it is killing our industry, and will destroy our economy. I would not like to see the samerican social system here in EU. Our living stardars are just going down.

Our reps, are beautiful, but not so great in technical side, comparing with high end watches (I mean Glasshutte, for example). The ETA movements and chinesse movements that we have in our rep watches, make its work, but obviously are on the low technical side of horology.

[NRG]

It's not going to happen though. The chinese are already leap-frogging up the technology ladder through business acquisitions (IE Rover Cars) and the West's willingness to engage with them, exchanging technology know-how vs manufacturing capability. Witness the recent Airbus deal.

I can't see how the EU will stop this when consumer demand for cheaper, lower cost products is in such demand. I feel there will be a sting-in-the-tail for us in the West but for now China continues to export deflation and the consumer is lapping it up.

[Pugwash]

I see the Chinese stepping up and filling the hole left by ETA.

I agree. I predict we'll see a Sea-Gull 28k movement appearing in the future to take up the slack.

[archibald]

Thanks for the info. Another movement manufacturer is always a good thing. I am hopeful there will be others. It is interesting that Swatch is pulling out of various segments just as sales of mechanical watches are growing at a substantial rate. Then again ETA movements is such a small percentage of their overall sales it won't matter. As long as there is money in it, new manufacturers wil come and the Seagulls of the world will improve their movements.

And if the "Swiss" are not careful, movements will go the same way as cars (at least in the U.S.). Today the higher end Japanese cars are getting better reliability marks than Mercedes and BMW. Mercedes sales are suffering as other countries and manufacturers get better and better.

Just curuious, is this business strategy--pulling out of a market then suing the [censored] out of anyone that steps up to fill the gap--an old strategy in buisiness or a copy of some new 21st Century schtick US tech companies have raised to a high art--Microsoft, HP, MySpcace, etc.

[bkdc]

Some Chinese company will start mass-producing decent quality movements. I'm not worried.

[bbob]

It's not all about quality, sure maybe chineese can make a better movement than eta, but it is what does the customer want.

The price of a watch is made by the brand. Rolex makes nice watches but you are paying a premium for the name.

Seiko makes some nice movement but why have they not been so succesfull in the high end market.

For most people buying a genuine watch is is still a symbole to show off, i have money and I can buy an expensive watch. Swiss made stands for that, quality and high price.

Sure lexus is now a premium brand and bmw and mspecially mercedes are having a difficult time. But look at at apple ipod. There are cheaper and better solutions, but apple has been able to make their ipod a thing to have. Famous people have one, dj on the radio talk about it, so everyone want one.

I think that swiss made has the same status for watches and it will be very difficult for made in china or even made in japan to push made in swiss from the high end market

[r11co]

It's not all about quality, sure maybe chineese can make a better movement than eta, but it is what does the customer want.

The price of a watch is made by the brand.

I'm in total agreement with you there. There are plenty people who are buying the image rather than the product. The PV Panerai guys are still making watches for example, but does anyone here honestly give a [censored]?

PS. I am wondering how many of these have already made it into our reps...

[infinitime]

i belive that china can make a better movement than ETA if they wanted too !

I don't know if it is better overall, but SEAGULL already makes a ETA2824 clone, which is better finished and uses interchangeable parts with the ETA version. It is labelled at the Seagull ST-18 . The ST-19 is a perfect clone of a 1960s manual wind chronogph made in Switzerland by Venus, the Venus-175, which was used extensively in many chronographs of that era.

By voluntarily removing themselves from the market, the Swiss are creating a vacuum for the entry of Chinese producers, who will undoubtedly take up a larger percentage of the market.

[r11co]

SEAGULL already makes a ETA2824 clone, which is better finished and uses interchangeable parts with the ETA version. It is labelled at the Seagull ST-18.

The ST-18 is a clone of the ETA 2892 and differs from it in one way only ie. the mainspring is wound in the opposite direction.

I strongly suspect that Seagull and Sellita openly make and distribute movements that are SO so close to ETA designs with one or two deliberate differences because their factories are or once were sub-contracted manufacturers for ETA, not unlike the way AMD acquired the rights to the x86 CPU instruction set as they were once a licenced manufacturer of Intel processors.

[Bazz]

I have a st-18 and a 2892 and there is a few more differences than just the mainspring being reversed, the easiest to see is the regulator is riveted on the st-18.

There are some pics in a thread Here