FxrAndy Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Many of you will remember this thread where Star69 imformed the board of an issue here was having with a member, in that same thread Finhs cam up and made accusations that Star69 had scammed him as the watch he bought arrive "disputably" not working. (you will also note that Finhs posts have all been edited by him,to read "problem solved" to hide all his comments but they can be reposted if required) To try to bring a quick and fair for all solution i offered to repair the watch for Finhs and frank would foot the bill if required. I how ever suspected a cases of buyers remorse due to the attached story (this can be confirmed by my fellow moderators as i mentioned it in a post in the admin area long before i recieved the watch) I will now post an exert from a PM that i sent to Finhs and Star69 followed by some of the replys and allow the membership to make up their minds if this was handled fairly, and who has been the huurt party in ths issue. I warn you all it may be a LONG READ. Star69,Finhs . I have just retuened from the customs office having picked this Pam up, After explaining to the nice man that i have not purchaced it and it has been sent to me for repair (Gran canaria is a special area in the EU with a lot of tax excemptions, which is why your packets to germany get stopped), well it was even harder to explain and expensive watch loose in a jiffy bag wrapped in thecorner another of a jiffy bag as the sole protection. This is not the way to post an delicate mechanical watch! http://i56.photobuck...ipampacking.jpg The next difficult thing i had to explain is why the watch that had been sent to me as non working seams to be running????? so after a bit of a long chat and a lot of education about mechanical watches and inviting the customs people to an exibition i am doing this weekend about mecanical clocks and watch so they could learn something, i walked out of the office with out paying anything. I got in my car and made this video you can clearly see the watch working, but lots can happen in the post, so as soon as i got home i removed the case back and inspected the movement for damage that could have been caused i the post such as bent pinions loose screws ect and i could find nothing just a well running (but in need of regulation seagull movement) and i made this film As you can see there that this movement has an:- Amplitude of 300 degrees (very good) A beat error of 0.7 ms (good but not great) and running a little slow, (the factory spec for this movement is only +-20 sec per day) If this movement had sustained any damage (dispite its packaging) then it would not run this well, i have brand new swiss movements that do have an amplitude of 300 with out work. So so far i have about 2 hours invested in this pam, with inspecting it and 45min each way to the customs and back again. And the only thing i can see wrong with it is that who ever removed the case back last put it on way to tight , you should not need to hold the watch in a vise in order to remove a case back, and the dial is covered in dust. That Finhs i can only say is the watch maker in Las Palmas If the watch had been knocked on the way to you Santi and the dial was indeed the problem then that is a problem of the post, not Frank If the watch had recieved the perfect opposing shock on the way to me then that also is a problem with the post, and your packaging. If you sent a brand new Patek there is always a risk of damage in the post, This hobby requires a certian amount of acceptance that things will go wrong and the post is slow, customs are hard and there is a lot to learn. I now await your replys in order to assertain what you would like me to do now. But one thing is for sure, Finhs, you have not been cheated and your statements in this http://www.rwg.cc/to...20#entry1126359 post are untrue and unfair, i would say that you should post a retraction of that statement. Andy The rest of the PM chain involves 3 moderators a spanish translation to ensure that Finhs realy understood what i was telling him, ending in the judgement Star69 is nt culpable for anything and that for my time and trouble then Finhs should make a €50 donation to the board ( i will post his watch back to him at my expence) and make a public appology for his comments to Star69 I dont want to post the whole chain as you will all loose the will to live less than half way through, but even today Finhs has PMed Nanug informing him that he must step in and tell me to return his watch which i am withholding " i picked the watch up on monday, and since tuesday night i have been away with work untill 9pm this evening. Finhs has insisted that the watch was broken even when he has seen the films of his watch working and also insted that it be repaired at Star69s cost and i supply a warentee,(for what if it is working) Finhs still refuses to make an appology for the coments he has made about Star69 including posting openly the members full name and address but has agreed to maka a donation but it has taken 3 mods and 3 days of PM Ping Ping Gentlemen, I ask that you make up your own minds about this issue, i will be sending the watch back (and it is working) correctly packed, I will pay the postage. If there are parts of this story that either member thinks are important of i have missed out let me know and i can add them or you can add them. I am now leaving this for you the members to make your minds up on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkal Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Andy and all admin involved with this issue resolution. Just a quick note to say wow, and thanks so much for the behind the scenes work to ensure this community is beyond reproach and around for the long haul. I have only been a member for a few months now but have to say I am vry impressed and this sort of balanced and fair minded resolution process has filled me with nothing but confidence about dealing with fellow members here. Big round of applause and keep up the good work. Thanks again, Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Glad to see you came to the right conclusions with this one Andy and I hope Star69 isn't too put off selling on the forum by this experience either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttsta Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Great work guys, that's what I love about this place. I never had any doubt about Star69's credibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finhs Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Hello all colleagues this forum: I am finhs, and i would like to explain here what is exactly the question. I have several days talking and defense my self from one watch broken received from start69, i have presented my reparation bill, i sent pictures and details from the watcmaker who intent to repair the wacth, but anything is impossible to admit by moderators, and sincerely i do not why? When i have received the watch was broken and when i sent to Andy still broken. I have talked something hard in the beginning of the seller for the attitude that proved to my problem. But thinking more, can I get fooled me with saying that I have received a broken watch, maybe 10, 15 €? Or as a new member of this forum I can not tell what's going on? Moderators are very nice circle of friends, but in this case are absolutly wrong, and i hope nobody here experimented this situation becouse is very ugly. And for the last, i do not why the moderator And retain my watch, becouse is my watch, i have paid inmediatly by Paypal to Star69, and not only is retened, i have to donate 50€ and to send apologize to the seller who sold to me a broken watch. I wrote to Andy that i can donate 50€ to the forum, but no more. my opinion from Start69 is the same "very bad" and has nothing to demand, he is out from Paypal also. I write this post to make known, exactly what is happening, and wich is my position about it. Best Regards Santi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 To be honest finhs if you had any problems with the watch you bought from star69 you should have kept the communications between yourself and him, airing your views in public of him including putting up his real name and address on the forum serves no purpose to anyone, if you still could not achieve an outcome that was good for both of you it is then time to ask for help from one of the mods, whom I might add I have had no dealings with but from what I have seen of them seem far from a closed circle of friends, they seem to me to be very open and honest with the forum and it's members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodiak Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I have no dog in this fight so to speak and was not aware of this "deal gone bad" until I just read this post above. I would however like to tell the membership here that I just purchased a watch from Santi and the transaction went very well. He had a BK Blue Ceramic Sub for sale. I made an offer and he accepted it. He shipped it quickly to the USA and the watch arrived in good working order. I was a little surprised to see the watch packed in an envelope but inside it was bubble wrapped well and then taped all around with heavy duct type tape. I'm not sure exactly what went wrong here but am glad the mods helped with the situation. I just wanted to let everyone know that I had a great experience with the seller in question. Thanks to the moderators here for keeping the peace. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 You should be embarrassed finhs, stop while you're ahead, the watch is on its way to you, working. Just say sorry and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 What a stubborn @ss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Finhs before you accuse me of withholding your watch (which i recieved monday, i spent tuesday to 9 pm friday away at work) it is on the way back to you at my cost Registered post RG948306735DE To ensure that there will be no missunderstanding of its function when it left me and just before i closed the lid on the box you can clearly see a moveing seconds hand in all these films I have removed the dust that your watchsmith left there and regulated the movement, but that is all, as there was nothing else to do. A 5 day turn around with 4 days at work i would say is a pretty good turn around time, so you can drop the withholding watch bit now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I too was not aware of this issue ... I can say that I have dealt with Star in the past without issue but must admit I would be disappointed receiving any watch in that packaging...there is nothing wrong with using a Jiffy envelope but the watch should be well wrapped within it.. Mainly to reduce the stress of travel... But I digress.. It's not a biggie.. I think maybe Santos has placed too much reliance in his own watch smiths comments and given the over tightening of the CB and the dust on the dial .. I would suggest he is not a reliable source to place your faith in.. In such circumstances.. We all have our own opinions of what we expect from a deal and most times these expectations are met.. Sometimes they don't .. But what I find most important is the manner in which it was dealt with by Santos on the public forum... That was wrong... At that stage of the complaint and with out seeking help from the mods it should never have involved 'outing' another member... Now I ain't saying you shouldn't do that but it should be done once other avenues of resolution are exhausted... To then claim the mods are contriving against you and in particular Andy is laughable and really undermines your credibility mate... Andy and others have worked very hard and at their own expense to resolve and more importantly help you... To accuse Andy of with holding your watch smacks of the conspiracy theory and to be asked to make a donation is not unreasonable given the work and effort made by others... After all you get a fully working watch with issues created by your watch smith resolved and the certainty from evidence that the watch is fully functioning... Maybe you are unhappy with the watch maybe there are reasons you don't want it.. But please do yourself a favour accept the issue in question and raised by you.. Is unfounded... Move on mate. Learn from this and be grateful so many people went to such much effort to listen to you and help you with your concerns..it wouldn't happen elsewhere! So that donation is well worth it If you are still not happy.. Then take it on the chin mate... [censored] happens.. Sometimes you just have to bite your lip.. Say what needs to be said and move on This forum is too good to lose over something so trivial... Relatively speaking... Hopefully you can and get back to enjoying this hobby and more importantly this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 i have just one thing to say : the 50 Euro is not an forced Donation to the forum - its the money that Andy would charge for his work - he donated it practically to the forum. the deal was instead of paying the 50 the Andy . Andy offered to have this money donated to the forum. Andy is doing this all for free on his own expenses. thx Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I know NO one listening to what i say so i can say what ever i want becuse no one realy listen Santi, this hole thing sound like you messed up the watch yourself and gave Frank the [censored] to smell! To me it sound like you open the watch try to do somthing then got dust in it and blame frank for a fault that never was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finhs Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Good morning all: SGTGUK: Thans for writting. Yes you are right, this question must be between Start69 and me, but when he reply to me i could see you form to abord this problem, the first thing he told me was, I have no Paypal more (with some ironic) and more solutions, after your hol with high cost to me, while i was thinking he had to abord all this cost to put again an my hand the watch in condition, but you are right in your opinion. PETEM: I was reading your post, an i tel, you that is so nice to write and compart opinions in this forum, i have intent of course to make friends, and you can make friend if you are in the right way, it´s absolutly disappointing and uncomfortable when somebody is not correct with you, this is the problem, i have now deffending my position and the truth. KODIAK: I hope you enjoy the blue one, i sent the best one for me, well like you can see, i am here deffending my position, becouse i think the justice is on my side, only for a moments imagine that i sent a broken watch and i give you some bad words like reply, or i do not offer you solutions or interes in to fis the problem, reallly is terrible, and believe is not the money is the act from a fellow. Thanks for alls opinions from the mates, in this case, if you are or not in my opinion i must respect you and now i attached my watchmaker bill, and the place, Star69 says is not real and i invited to call, to write, or to visit, i have nohing to hide. ]Cheers Santi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 *Unnecessary post* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCraig Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Well done Andy, the board that runs this forum is selfless, tireless, and apparently patient to a fault. @ finhs, I read the thread when it was running, before editing, and after your post above, can't understand why you are still here and why anyone would ever transact with you again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finhs Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Zeleni: I send the watch to the watchmaker, the history is such as i wrote. I do not open the watch never. Cheers Santi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panermaniac Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I'm confused.. if Santi received a non working watch as he says, then took it to a watchsmith whom he says couldn't fix it because they didn't have "Chinese parts", but Andy received the watch in overall good working order then who in the heck does Santi think fixed it???? Is the postal system doing repairs now? I don't mean to make light of a crappy situation but I'm very confused. and I think it would be wise to take a Panerai needing repair to a shop that can actually spell Panerai... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I'm confused.. if Santi received a non working watch as he says, then took it to a watchsmith whom he says couldn't fix it because they didn't have "Chinese parts", but Andy received the watch in overall good working order then who in the heck does Santi think fixed it???? Is the postal system doing repairs now? I don't mean to make light of a crappy situation but I'm very confused. and I think it would be wise to take a Panerai needing repair to a shop that can actually spell Panerai... Awesome, I'm going to chuck a load of parts in a jiffy bag, mail them to myself, and receive a working watch :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Awesome, I'm going to chuck a load of parts in a jiffy bag, mail them to myself, and receive a working watch :tu: Can you send me one too please.... maybe a Rolex Oversized Chronograph... the 1942 model please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archierocks Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I know NO one listening to what i say so i can say what ever i want becuse no one realy listen Santi, this hole thing sound like you messed up the watch yourself and gave Frank the [censored] to smell! To me it sound like you open the watch try to do somthing then got dust in it and blame frank for a fault that never was there. i agree with zk here santi ffs man up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Can you send me one too please.... maybe a Rolex Oversized Chronograph... the 1942 model please Sadly, I don't have the parts to make up one of those, which is a shame, it would be fun to see how good the Postal Elves really are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Argh but if you chuck in a broken Timex with some fairy dust...??? I believe I believe I believe..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Argh but if you chuck in a broken Timex with some fairy dust...??? I believe I believe I believe..... You never know PS While walking home with some groceries last night, wifey and I saw some old wino passed out by the library T'was just like the scene in your sig bar, but without the ultraviolence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Bit of real horrorshow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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