My Very First Keyless Works Repair, in progress

[icoopernicus]

I'll start by saying this, I am not very good at documenting my work but pictures are en route, I also made some Newb mistakes during the dissassembly that I may need help fixing.... alright disclaimers notwithstanding....

I performed my very first keyless works repair last night! This whole issue came about after I got frustrated with a crooked crystal on my DSSD, it has been like this from the time it arrived, over a year ago. I had attempted to press the crystal in, with no luck, in the past but had never taken a watch apart and certainly didn't try that a year ago with I got this watch. This time, I started tapping the crystal (dumb, I know) and in the process I caused the second hand to pop off, the dial to come loose, and the crystal to stay right where it was when I started

At this point I knew I had to take the watch apart to replace the second hand and I would just pop the crystal out and re-install it into the watch. (I also had no idea that the dial was loose on the movement at this time). I managed to get the Crystal installed in the case, nice and straight, and simply pop the second hand back on, no problems and I was good to go.... threw the watch on my wrist and took the dog for a walk, and that's when I saw the dial turning freely around inside the case

When I got home I took the watch off and opened it up, pulled the movement out and glued the dial to the movement ring (not sure what this part is called but it had come unglued from the ring that connects the dial to the movement. I popped the watch back together only to immediately notice a spec of dust on the dial, and I went back in...... that's when my luck ran out and I finally gummed up the keyless works. It was now 20:00 and I was getting tired, but that didn't stop me.

Tonight, between finishing my assembly and taking the dog for another walk, I will update this post with terribly documented repair pictures that show very little detail and will never help anyone, but like I said, I'm no good at documenting anything.

Until then, I hope everyone is having a good.....time

Mike

[freddy333]

Sorry to hear about the problems, but, short of apprenticing with a master watchmaker, that is the best way to learn.

[davylloyd]

I suppose sooner or later, everyone who loves and collects watches gets involved in attempting a repair of some sort. Very often the outcome of this first try determines whether it's the first of many, or the first and last!

I hope this all goes well for you. The first time I repaired a keyless works, it went like shelling peas, the second time, I ended up crying like Homer Simpson.

[woof*]

Congrats OP!

My hats off to anyone that doesn't give up...like I have.

I look forward to seeing some of your pictures

[the_rymeister]

Hey mike

we've all been there buddy, I remember when I busted my first keyless, I just wanted to scream but once you have it apart a few times its not too bad

Best way to learn,

good luck buddy, i look forward to the pics and update.

Ry

[icoopernicus]

Well folks, it's update time, I'll start with pictures leading up to the present.

As I mentioned, this watch had a crooked crystal that (for some reason) lead to a dislodged second hand.

I don't know for sure if this will show up, but for what it's worth, this is the before with the crooked crystal.

Here's the dial, sans second hand, no big deal, easy fix and we move on.

Voila!

I then moved on to removing the crystal and replacing it, properly this time, took me a couple tries but I got it

Before

After

It doesn't look a whole lot different, however, in person it is much better. Not sure how this is suppose to be done but I improvised a press, by standing on it in my stocking feet whatever works, after all, I am a problem solver.

This should have been the end of it, in fact I thought it was....

To for a walk with the dog I noticed the crooked dial, of which there are no pictures. Sorry, although its pretty self explanatory.

I got home a proceeded to tear the watch apart, again. I can't speak for a gen Rolex having never had one apart, but I suspect that this is a problem specific to Reps no dial feet, it was simply glued to the movement, as evidenced by all the glue on the movement.

Long story short, sort of, I glued the dial back on and assembled the watch leaving a tiny spec of unacceptable dust on the dial, time to come apart again.

This is where the trouble started.

Like I said in my first post, I'm not very good a documenting my work, but this is what I've got for you.

I certainly want to thank Ry for his excellent post on the keyless works repair, this was my main source of information with regard to this little project.

Once I got everything back in place...... It didn't work, ha, so I did it again.

After the third time assembling the keyless works I was able to get it just right. The keyless works cover was not engaged on the end of the clutch lever oops. Again, this is where I wish I had much better pictures to illustrate exactly what I mean. I had found an old post on www.rwg.bz by cybee that pointed this out for me.

Now I was up and running, at least with regards to the stem and keyless works.

My current problem involves the manual date set function..... Um, it doesn't

After hours of playing I managed to install the date wheel and get it changing at midnight, however I just can't get the manual date change to function, everything looks right to me, but then again, what do I know?

I have not seen this style of manual date change before, but again, what do I know. The screwdriver is pointing to what I think is the manual date actuator. When turning the crown the date change turns but it does not actuate the date wheel, everything seems to be installed properly but I fear I may have lost a small part or done something wrong when I was tearing it apart. If anyone has any suggestions, I would love to hear them, I can't wait to get this baby back on my wrist. Also, I paid for an ETA movement in this watch, any expert able to identify this particular movement from these pictures?

This is still a work in progress so I'll try to keep you guys posted as I work on it, I hope you're all enjoying my pain

One of these days I would like to repair this beauty for my grandfather, it was a gift when he left South Africa to come to Canada.

OMEGA Seamaster Cosmic, the crown and stem fell out some time ago, I'm sure a full service is actually in order, maybe I'll just find him a watchmaker so he can put it back on his wrist.

[krpster]

Good on ya for giving it a go. Looks like you probably learned a few things along the way too. So in the end time well spent.

As for the vintage Omega, I would probably leave that to the professionals

[cougar1]

Great work iCoop, keyless can be a pain, but once you've got down and dirty with it like you've just done, it'll be plain sailing if you ever have to do it again.

[sgtguk]

I did my first keyless recently too, after the fourth attempt and nearly launching the movement across the room I decided to hand it over to a pro

Great thing is you learn quite a bit when you do a bit of work yourself and when it works you'll be smiling from ear to ear

[icoopernicus]

Thanks sgt, I almost have it working, just that pesky manual date change I'm so close I can almost taste it

[mt666tm]

Just keep at it. Check the keyless gears that are around the stem to see if they are moving the stem into date setting mode. Sometimes a gear can become dislocated from whatever they are supposed to be pressed into... hard to explain... easy to see in a loupe when you have it all assembled without the datewheel on as you can see if the gears are in fact doing their job when the stem is pulled into date setting position.

When you see that one speck of dust in the watch after all that hard work it helps to go and have a drink and come back to it... it'll take the edge off before you bring out the hammer

[icoopernicus]

Just keep at it. Check the keyless gears that are around the stem to see if they are moving the stem into date setting mode. Sometimes a gear can become dislocated from whatever they are supposed to be pressed into... hard to explain... easy to see in a loupe when you have it all assembled without the datewheel on as you can see if the gears are in fact doing their job when the stem is pulled into date setting position.

When I place the stem in the date set position and turn the crown, the gear moves up and rotates the date actuator (not sure what it's called) but the part that I am almost sure is meant to change the date just seems to spin freely I really seem to be stuck but rest assured, I will not give up this easily.

[icoopernicus]

Alright, update, with no pics I figured out the manual date change, turns out, if you are right around midnight (date has just flipped over) it will jam the manual date change. No, this is something that I already new but apparently I didn't, if that makes any sense.

So, rock 'n' roll, right? Wrong! Out of nowhere, for some completely unknown reason, the movement is essentially dead? What the hell?

There is still resistance when winding the mainspring so I don't suspect a break

Could it be binding somehow? The movement was running just fine yesterday and all I have done since is move the date change ahead to stop it from jamming, install the dial, install the hands, and then put the movement in the case. When I inserted the stem she was dead.

I am so close to throwing this movement out the window and just sourcing a new one.

Does anyone have any idea why the movement won't tick? Any advice at all is, as always, very much appreciated.

Thanks

Mike

[icoopernicus]

Well, the movement is going for service, as soon as I can find myself a watchmaker that is The main gear train is binding up and will not alow the mainspring to transfer energy all the way to the escapement wheel. This was discovered after almost completely dissassembling the movement, inspecting, and reassembling the movement, then jumping for joy as it started beating away!

I then installed the Automatic winding bridge and rotor only to see (and hear) the mainspring completely unwind I removed the automatic winding bridge and took a closer look. I found the #2 gear would release all of the tension in the mainspring if I touched or shifted it slightly but would not transfer that energy to the #3 gear or the escapement wheel. I got my crappy magnifying glass out and looked as hard as I could at the jewel for the #2 gear, sure enough it is cracked. This is allowing the gear to shift and either bind or spin freely. I have decided to send the watch to a watchmaker to replace the main gear train bridge and completely service the movement, I should then be up and running for several years. I promise to upload a few pics when I get home to illustrate my point a little better.

Live and Learn I guess, but man I had fun

Mike

[icoopernicus]

The final chapter, here's the pics.

Here we have the movement with the automatic bridge removed as well as the manual winding gear, everything here appears to be working so... moving on

After I determined that the mainspring was being wound I decided to inspect the gear train.

In that picture there are two prominent gears beside the mainspring gear, these I will refer to as the #2 and #3 gears, the #1 gear is to the left and is positioned lower than these two. This gear is coupled directly to the mainspring barrel, each successive gear is then connected in a train, to the escapement wheel, this is mechanical watches 101 and is also the principle that allows them to have a usable power reserve.

The problem I was having involved the inability to transfer the power from the mainspring to the escapement, there was a disconnect somewhere along this gear train.

I removed the oscillator in order to get a better look at the escapement wheel

I couldn't find a problem looking at it and after inspecting each gear, I proceeded to assemble the movement, the oscillator and finally the gear train bridge. I would test the movement with a slight jog off the oscillator, after a few tries at reassembly, it started to tick. I actually recorded a video of this but I'm not sure how to upload it, not important, we all know what that looks like anyway.

Like I said in the previous post, I proceeded to install the automatic bridge and rotor, claiming success prematurely, when the mainspring whizzed around in a blaze of anticlimactic glory I inspected and found that the movement ran, only as a fluke the last time I assembled it and that at some point I had cracked the jewel for the #2 gear, the jewel to the upper left of the centre jewel for the#3 gear, this does not show up in the pictures and is almost impossible to see with the naked eye.

The movement is now back together, not working and in disparate need of service, but what learned from this little adventure is immeasurable and I feel I am that much closer to my eventual goal, many years down the road, of opening a watch repair shop in my sleepy little town to enjoy my retirement.

Thanks for taking the time to enjoy my adventure and hopefully my UPO build will be far less eventful and involve much better documentation. Until then,

Mike

I'm going to miss her

[mt666tm]

Don't dismiss this to failure... Take this move,ent completely apart and Get a little plastic jar out and fill it up with all the screws and usable parts from this movement. If you are truly learning then look at the jar in a few years and you will se a lot more screws and parts in there.

Then when you finally are at the point where you are fixing movements with a positive success rate you will need these little screws and parts, and it's a lot of fun to find one in the jar that will work... and youll remember where it came from