Old School MBW 1680 build / Ingod dial issues

[bones]

In the process of modding this for someone and have come upon a stumbling block of the dial opening being smaller than the dial. Now had I a lathe this wouldn't be an issue, but I don't, so it is. 

 

For those interested in the full build pics: http://imgur.com/a/BOtpe

 

So I'm looking for solutions. 

 

 

1: New case - not good, MBW case is pretty awesome, plus it's aged, trimmed, waterproofed, re-tapped and countersunk for gen crown/tube

2: Machine case to fit dial - I can't do this so it would have to go to someone who can - I don't know any machinist except for Justin

3: Find new dial - I don't think we will find a dial as small as 26mm unless we use original MBK dial which is red sub

4: Make dial smaller - done this once before, result wasn't elegant but it worked. But working by hand is risky especially on a more expensive dial. 

 

Any advice? It seems the most elegant solution would be to trim down the rehaut angle thus giving the extra 0.5mm needed to make the dial look centered and like it fits the case. Then useing a lathe trim the inner portion of the dial opening until the ingod dial fits.

 

Anyone done anything like this?

 

Cheers.

 

B. 

 

 

[Nanuq]

Donerix did this to fit a 6542 dial into a Silix case and make it less wokky. I believe it took sandpaper and several hours, with excellent results.

[bones]

My only issue with modifying only the rehaut is that it would mean the movement being a fraction of a mm higher in the case, which might pose isses with the stem height. 

 

It's not the rehaut solely, but that underneath there is the lip for the MBW dial to sit on, and it's not wide enough for the Ingod dial. Sorting the rehaut would deal with the dial opening on the rehaut side, but not on the movement side. 

[alligoat]

Have you talked to Justin about this? I would think the best solution is to trim the inside of the case so the 26.5mm dial fits in there. The MBW red sub dial is 26.2mm so you'd only have to remove .3mm or .15mm from each side- all the way around. 

[bones]

Yeah I know, he's such an in demand chap I wanted to explore some other possibilities before I got in contact with him. I might explore some contact at hf.com first. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[panerai153]

Just had the very same thing with mine. Sent the watch over to Mymanmatt, with a genuine 1680 dial. My biggest problem was  the DW alignment was way off here is a link to the thread with a lot of photos     http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/154637-my-9-day-watch/?hl=%2B1680#entry1187853

Also here are some photos that I sent Matt to illustrate how bad it was. What you see here is the date at 9,11,13,23 and 30. You can see how right justified the numbers are. to see the 1's in the 11,13, you had to actually look under the DW opening to see the 1's

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now here is the same watch with the genune dial

 

 

Now, it's not the dial, because the old MBW dial looked just as good when he tried it. So what was the problem? Well, attribute it to "almost gen-like construction. When he looked at the watch straight on, he noticed that the dial was slightly off center. you could tell by the minute markers. longer on one side, shorter on the other. When he took the watch apart, he found that the grove that the dial sits in was deeper on one side than the other, in fact the center hole had been slightly enlarged to make allow the hole to fit the center of the movement. Now we aren't  talking a lot, but all it takes is a tiny amount of off centering to create a problem. He also said that the movement was off center as well, a short clamp was used on one side, a longer one on the other side. He used a dremel to deepen the groove to where it was uniformly deep all around. This centered the dial, but it also increased the diameter just enough that the genuine dial would work. You need to check yours to see if the dial groove is uniformly round and the same depth. If it's OK, and you still want to use a genuine dial, i believe that you will have to cut the groove a little deeper all the way around, enough to allow the genuine dial to fit.

 

 

 

 

 

[bones]

Yeah, the dial was slightly off centre in my case as well. I know I can shave down the rehaut to provide a better dial 'window' but its the underside of the rehaut that will need careful consideration. I will have to think about this a bit more. 

[panerai153]

you don't need to shave the rehaut, you just need to deepen (Expand) the groove a tiny amount. I guarantee if you take your dial off and look at the case, the groove under the rehaut that the dial sits in is not the same all the way around. Probably when they were milling the groove the jig was not set up dead on, so the groove got milled out a little more on one side. Probably did a bunch like that before they realized the mistake, only solution was to scrap the cases, or ream out the dial hole a tad so the movement would fit. Guess what they did???

[alligoat]

Cool AP, I like the idea of using a dremel to widen out the dial seat- may have to give that a try on my MBW 1680! Thanks

[bones]

Well the rehaut does actually need smoothing out a little as it covers the outer portion of the dial track a bit too much. Doesn't need much though, just a little. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[panerai153]

Cool AP, I like the idea of using a dremel to widen out the dial seat- may have to give that a try on my MBW 1680! Thanks

 

I didn't do it myself, Matt did the work, he was the one who told me about it. I asked him how he opened the dial seat up. I thought he might have put it on a lathe or used a milling machine, but he said he uses a Dremel. Heck, If I tried that, i would probably cut the darn case in half, or have grooves all over the outside from letting the tool get away from me,LOL

 

When it comes to watch work, I always remember my grandfathers admonition to me,"Remember son, a fool with a tool is still a fool  " I can handle bigger stuff OK, but not the precision work.

[automatico]

I have cut a few dial seats out on vintage rlx type cases in a lathe by clamping on the case neck (where the crystal goes on)...this works fine as long as the case neck and dial seat are concentric. If they are not concentric, you will have to know whether to use the case neck for reference or the dial seat (it is almost always the dial seat that is out of whack). If you need to use the dial seat as the centering reference for some reason...you will have to center it in a four jaw chuck and this takes time.

 

I mount a used crystal on the case neck without a retaining ring, then clamp the lathe jaws over the crystal to prevent scratching the case neck.

So far they all have worked Ok. 

 

A week or two ago I cut a little bit off the lower edge of the reflector (rehaut) on a '16610' F437091 case to reduce the 'wok effect' by clamping the case in the lathe using the caseback thread area. This works Ok too but you can not remove much metal or the dial may show scratches made by the dial seat (if the dial has been used) or fall through the window if you remove too much metal. 

Smoothing the dial seat with 600/1000 sandpaper helps a lot.  

You can not remove much metal at all on the lower edge of the reflector on wokky cases with lettering around the inside of the reflector.

 

I stay away from modern ceramic insert models because they are too hard to find parts for (bez inserts etc) and they have reflector ring lettering, not to mention the overly complicated clasp. I do not mind vintage models at all (1016, 5513, 1680 etc). The 16610 etc are sometimes harder to work with depending on bezel construction and crystal mounting method. Oem spec is always better.

(I do not take in any outside work at all)

[bones]

Damn I was getting excited until your last sentence. Good to know though. Think I will send a quick pm to Justin to see if he can help. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[fitch]

you don't need to shave the rehaut, you just need to deepen (Expand) the groove a tiny amount. I guarantee if you take your dial off and look at the case, the groove under the rehaut that the dial sits in is not the same all the way around. Probably when they were milling the groove the jig was not set up dead on, so the groove got milled out a little more on one side. Probably did a bunch like that before they realized the mistake, only solution was to scrap the cases, or ream out the dial hole a tad so the movement would fit. Guess what they did???

 

@panerai153 (or anybody else that could help me out); I might be able to source and older MBW so I can finally start building my 1680 and I will encounter the same problem with the dial opening of ~26.1 and the dial size of 26.5, could you please show my in a picture of the MBW case what the groove looks like and which parts I would have to mill to solve this problem? (if I understand correctly I do not have to thin the rehaut on the inside?) thanks very much in advance for your help!