dvn Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I am about to pull a trigger on ordering an all gen parts (GenStein) watch from a known member and it costs quite a bit and quite frankly it is the most I pay for non-gen watch up until now. I was asked to pay by bank transfer and I am ok with it but it is a lot of money and i want to protect my self incase some thing gone wrong. We have seen reputable member(s) went under and walked away with other members's money and watches. So I want to know what is my recourse if something does go wrong? I do not mean to imply that I do not trust the seller but when it come to my hard earned money I want to sure. What do you think I should do to protect myself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winno Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Any doubt, don't do it. Simple.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 I highly doubt that a known member would do that. There is a certain level of trust involved but the more known/trusted the member is then the less of a chance there is that they will rip you off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraExtra Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 First and foremost you need to sort out all the details including how to handle disputes before money is exchanged. Both must agree to make it work. Problem usually arise when you sort out the disputes after the transaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Yep agree with ExtraExtra, try to do the sorting out of 'what if!' before you do the transaction. In these situations if the guy is a long time trusted member it can still happen that they do a runner, but it is very rare. Most likely problems arise from something like a DOA or what happens if the watch gets lost/stolen in shipping, ...whos head is it on....are you taking the full risk or is any sort of insured shipper being used. When it comes to BT there is no real dispute...and to be quite honest that is the way it should be. It doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't get things very clear before the process takes place. I would rather get things clear and delay the transaction than jump in without covering these details. I also did a BT transaction for a heavy franken about a month ago. Usually between our both locations the shipping takes about 2-3 days...but this particular one took over two weeks with no updates to tracking and tbh honest I was almost beginning to write it off as it was all on my head, which I accepted. About 2 and a half weeks in it suddenly shows up in the local post office tracking. What a sigh of relief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Draft a small one-page contract and have both parties sign. On it, include your personal info and his which you should have from the bank info. That's what I did once. Or, use Paypal and cover the fees. Paypal is like insurance. I think I have an idea what you are buying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I believe that the biggest problem that you are likely to encounter is related to shipping, customs, etc. First off is it possible for you guys to do a face to face meet. you hand him the cash, he hands you the watch. Otherwise, I believe that a written agreement would be fine. Another thing, I would find some shipping method that allows you to insure for full value. none of this, Lets value it at 20.00 USD and try to slip it through to avoid customs duties. Here in the USA, you cannot insure for more than you stated on the customs declaration. If it's a 6K watch, bite the bullet and insure it for the full amount.You will probably have to pay some duty, but that's better than having the watch go missing and have no insurance.What ccountries are you shipping from/to? Are either of these countries with histories of customs seizing watches. Although If you send one through with a high valuation , more than likely the customs folks will not believe that it's a franken, You guys need to work all these questions out before you finalize the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtguk Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I agree get all the details ironed out before you make the deal d, it's too late after the fact when issues come up to sort them out! BT is a great option but for me it would have to be a 100% trusted member and like some of the guys suggested get it down on paper (emails) before you send any money, You must know what's gonna happen should your watch go missing etc etc look at what just happened to another deal recently If your unsure in any way don't go ahead mate or go with PP instead and cover the fees, in saying all of that trust is a 2 way street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 If you are nervous enough about the member or simply the amount of money involved than simply don't do it. YOu have certainly bought plenty of stuff in the past and it hasn't been an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartmind Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Maybe some members like me are always asked to make directly transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Maybe some members like me are always asked to make directly transfer. That's likely because you have not established yourself as a regular member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvn Posted February 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 Thank you every one for their inputs. I do not mind listing the buyer here since I do not think I would violate the forum rules and damage the reputation of the seller in any way so here I go. I am planning of making a purchase a Genstein 3714 (every thing GEN including the strap and tang buckle) from our beloved Concepta and we were communicating through email and agreed on the price. He was asking for bank transfer payment using IBAN and I do not have any problem with that. I know Concepta is a good and a oustanding member of this forum but he is oversea so the only thing I rely is was his words. I trust him but part of me still worry because I was scammed once before from a Timezone member for $1700 for a non delivered Omega PO last year (along with 6 other members). I still want to go forward with the order because therice is good and I can't get the same watch at therice in the gen forum. So I waiting to hear back from him for answers to my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 Of course if you want piece of mind why not just pay the fees on PP or split them and base the price on the cost of the genuine parts listed out on an invoice.. so its a parts sale rather than built watch that way it aint a franken etc etc But I agree with above..if in doubt dont and if you do then make sure you consider all the 'what ifs' and the resolution... Concepta is a good guy and I dont see any scamming being an issue here but things happens..I recall once he sent to the wrong address and it was lost etc but he did put it right... Just be absolutely clear about what you expect from the deal for the money and let Concepta reply and agree or discuss..etc and also consider method of shipping etc if face to face aint realistic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 Considering the seller, the most likely issue will be damage &/or loss during shipment. Be aware, too, that, to make a claim, most postal organizations require some type of provenance or proof of value like a sales receipt. The value declared on an export document or shipping invoice has little relevance if/when a claim is made. So, were it me, I would have the item shipped via Registered Mail with a relatively low declared value (to keep it from attracting the wrong kind of attention). Registered mail is notoriously slow, but, because the package is kept under lock-&-key 24/7 & must be signed for by each & every individual who handles it, this shipping method is, by far, the most reliable (Rolex requires ALL shipments to/from them to be shipped this way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyyammine Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Just insist on PayPal plus if things dont work out im sure you can get help on what to do from here afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Unless you guys are both in the same country, i still believe that shipping and customs problems are far more likely to occur than the seller heading for Brazil with the proceeds. If you look at the VRF sales, just about everyone asks for the proceeds to be wire transfered. I'm sure that because of what PayPal extracts for their services, a 10,000 dollar sale will be short several hundred dollars if PayPal is used. I have very mixed views, as a seller I would prefer the funds be transfered by bank wire, while as a buyer I would prefer to use Paypal. Simply because as a seller, if the buyer suffers from buyer remorse, and wants to return the watch, if you refuse, he will probably concoct some story and file a Paypal dispute. On the other hand, when you wire money, once it's gone, it's gone, no recourse. Before you consumate the deal, both you and the seller should have some serious conversations about all the "what if's" especiallty since you have some misgivings about the deal. Decide on a shipping method, Freddy suggests Registered mail, which if it's good enough for Rolex, I suppose it's good enough for me. It's dreadfully slow however, because as has been mentioned in other posts, it's the lowest priority of all mail, but because it's under lock and key, signed in and out, It's probably worth the wait, for safety. I didn't think about what Freddy said about insurance before I saw his post, but I'm sure the USPS is not going to send you a check for 5k for a lost watch without some proof that there was actually a 5k watch in the package. This may be problematic with a rep, no matter how much it cost to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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