Lo' Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Hi all, Currently sourcing parts for my new pet-project. InGod sells this: http://www.ingod44.com/rolex-gmt-master-6542-no-crown-guard-pan-am/ But it does not look like something I can slap onto my ETA powered build. Or is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 i used the ingod44 1675 White dial for my 6542. It has dial feet which have to be removed, but the dials are otherwise identical (Dial face). The 6542 dial has a concave lip around the edge that is designed to snap on to a gen Rolex 1030 movement. It might work fine with an ETA, but the lip may pose a problem. Maybe others like joeyB can chime in here and give you better advice. The only reason I changed mine to the ingod dial was because of DW alignment problems with the dial joeyB made for me. his dials are really beautiful, but the blanks have the date window a little too far out toward the edge of the dial, which makes the numbers too far to the left. He has been trying to find dial blanks with the correct date window placement but AFAIK he hasn't been able to source them.another plus, the 1675 dial is about 100 USD cheaper!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 But it does not look like something I can slap onto my ETA powered build. Or is it? No. His dial is made like the gen, which is designed to be pressed onto the movement's main plate, so it will not fit an ETA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo' Posted March 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Thanks a lot gents! Ingod apparently is out of stock on both the black and white 1675 dials. Any other viable alternatives? Searching the forum does not lead me to additional clues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Here is where i buy all my dial's http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/ They got new daytona dials, amazing!!! I like NDT, yes prices are a but high but you always get what you see i like there dials very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Maybe others like joeyB can chime in here and give you better advice. The only reason I changed mine to the ingod dial was because of DW alignment problems with the dial joeyB made for me. his dials are really beautiful, but the blanks have the date window a little too far out toward the edge of the dial, which makes the numbers too far to the left. He has been trying to find dial blanks with the correct date window placement but AFAIK he hasn't been able to source them. I wish I knew then what I know now. The cartel 1655 Explorer II may be the best/easiest/cheapest answer for now. The tough part is grinding off the crown guards and buying a coin edge bezel. The movement/dial unit is set up perfectly for the case, so no special fitting/grinding spacers and rings. Both the 21j DG3804B and the 'Swiss' ETA are available. The date window is in the correct place, so refinishing the dial is all that is needed, and the GMT hands. I wish the factories would make the very same setup with no crown guards/coin edge for the 6542 and all the Subs. The builds would be so much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 his dials are really beautiful, but the blanks have the date window a little too far out toward the edge of the dial, which makes the numbers too far to the left. He has been trying to find dial blanks with the correct date window placement but AFAIK he hasn't been able to source them. Assuming your case has the correct dimensions, do you have the correct crystal (T115)? Many mistakenly use 1675 crystals (T116), which locate the cyclops slightly sideways of where it is on the 6542, which leaves the date window slightly off-center, as you described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 With the scarcity of the T115, and it's high price if found, most aftermarket replacements use the T116 which is .5mm off. But the white dial I made initially for panerai's watch was made to center over the ETA movement date wheel, which is more to the right. I had no dial that has the date window in the Rolex position to use an overlay, The gen dials require a lot of work to use on an ETA movement, as you were first to know. The lip on a gen 6542 needs to be ground off flat, and the dial is still thick giving little pinion for the GMT hand to mount. So, a higher pinion is needed. I tried to use a gen dial on my first build and ran into all that, and then really messed up the dial. That's when I decided to try and salvage some of the money spent on it, ground the lip off, sanded down the back and face to make it thinner, filled the gouge marks I had screwed it up with using solder, and went to the water slide decal. It came out nice, as you might remember, but I've since redone the dial decal several times, every time I found an improvement in my method. I apologize for the pic, just did a quick one to show the date window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 joey and Freddy, that's why I decided to go with the 1675 white dial, it's a lot easier to cut off the dial feet than grind down the lip of the 6542 dial. In fact if you had one of those neat welding jigs that someone, I believe offshore, had a post about here, you could easily weld new legs in the exact position to fit and ETA. Like you and joey both know from long years of experience, a lot of this rep business is trial and error, and over time you see where improvements can be made. It ain't easy that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 Amen to that. I am certainly guilty of disassembling some very nice donor watches for a higher good, but I could never bring myself to grind down a gen 103x dial. Well, never say never I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I really destroyed that dial! But it serves now, so I am happy. I did epoxy on dial feet which makes a build so much easier. I've installed dial feet on 3 dials now, and it is the only way to do it. Dial dots just don't cut it. The 6538 Bond Sub dial I made using sheet brass, drill the center hole and shaped it round to size, then epoxied the dial feet on. But I am a 'master' now at the persistent act of 'do over'. I get lots and lots of practice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 What type of epoxy are you using? I have tried a number of them, but I have yet to find 1 that keeps the feet in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I tried JB Weld, both the long curing and the 'kwik' and both failed. Then I tried golf club reshafting epoxy, which is 24 hour cure. That works but I'm not that patient any longer. Then I tried the Loctite Quickset 5 minute epoxy in the double syringe style tube. The first dial feet failed, but that was after about 4 hours. After 12 hours the feet stayed and worked well. The 6542 dial has been locked in an ETA 2846 and out 3 times now with no failure. I am careful, but not much more so that with factory feet. Also, the Loctite dries to a yellowish color that makes a great aged bezel pearl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I would not put too much faith in that Loctite Quickset, because that is 1 of the epoxies I tried, which failed days after installation. I have spoken with other watchmakers, who have come to the conclusion that, short of actual welding, dial feet cannot be permanently attached to a painted dial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Well, so far so good. The first is about a month in service now, the latest about a week. I did rough up the back of the dial where the feet would attach, and roughed up the head of each foot. Each dial was bare when I did them and I applied the decal after roughly 24 hours of curing. So, they held up during the application, trimming, and luming, then installation. I tried several ways to solder the feet in place, but could not get that to hold at all. The low temp liquid solder would not hold at all, and the Stay-Brite silver solder failed when I tried to mount the dial to the movement. The Stay-Brite is what was used to fill the gouges I made in the face. Both usually hold very strong in other applications. I use an old movement, put the dial feet in the holes and then put the dial spacer ring under the head of each in place, just as it would be finally mounted. Then lock the feet in position, the dial ring flush to the movement. A drop of epoxy on the head of each foot, apply the dial and center it. Then wait to cure. It has worked on both ETA and DG movements now, 3 total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I did not realize these were bare dials, which makes all the difference. If the epoxy stops working, you might try soldering the feet on. That is the recommended way to do it, but not practical with painted dials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Yep, soldering makes a difference on finished dials, and not a good one! I'm told the dial feet machine does work by soldering on finished dials. That's why an epoxy that really works is so necessary. I'm not buying one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 You might find this & this interesting on the topic of dial feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 The first is interesting, I've seen the 2nd before here and on Yuki's site. There was a golf club epoxy I used years ago, very shiny black, called 'Conap', I think. It was a quick set and had the characteristics to hold an iron head on a shaft at high torque. If the stuff I have fails, I may go looking for that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjjoyce1 Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I've had the same problem with dial feet and glue too. While not a perfect solution, mine has been to solder the dial feet to the spacer ring, then glue the spacer to the dial. Flux is key. This is my 1675 dial setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 I did that with limited success. On ETA movements the date wheel has a tight clearance to the ETA dial spacer. Any tiny misplacement of solder or misalignment will make it hang up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo' Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 News update: Back to the starting point given I have just lost the modder. There apparently was a misunderstandment as I was under the convinction that he'd build the watch while he thought I was just asking him to source a movement. Either way I'm stuck once more... Does this perhaps mean I should just lay down and avoid? But no I won't. For the time being I'll just keep on gathering parts. Then I'll see what to do with the modder. Hopefully one of them will read this topic and decide to apply Back on track. I found this on Yuki's site Is there any reason for not using it? thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I would vintagize it & swap the bezel insert for 1 of JoeyB's, but, otherwise, it looks good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lo' Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Thanks a lot Freddy. I have been writing to the gentlemen at Yuki which reply that their case ships for USD 700 crystal, bezel, bakelite insert, tube and caseback. Looks fair to me, therefore as I'm ready to pull the trigger I'd appreciate a confirmation from you and all those in the know: Can I use this to build my 6542 rep with JoeyB's insert (and date overlay), a 2893 movement with GMT "hack" and whatever has to go there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 You would do well to ask Yuki, since it is his case, but I believe all those cases are designed to fit gen movements. Yuki sells ETA spacer rings elsewhere on his site, but you had better check to see if he has them in stock before assuming anything (he often does not). JoeyB's insert is made to fit into a gen bezel, so it should fit Yuki's case. But, again, always best to ask the source of the part 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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