Frankens? Is there an end aim?

[fraggle42]

Frankens confuse me a little. Reading about people's frankens they all seem to replace rep parts with gen parts, some just one or two bits, others the whole watch it seems. I (mistakenly!) thought a franken would be a rep changed to be a "fantasy" watch that the gen maker had never produced. Whilst I can see that doing the former you're getting closer and closer to owning a gen, there's very little personalisation you can do. With the latter the only limit is your imagination and budget and as soon as you start you'll have something unique that only you through of. Do people do both? Or is it all getting as close to gen as possible? I did see the lady doing the hand painted dials which look gorgeous and are what I'd consider a step to a nice franken Richard

[freddy333]

Traditionally, a Frankenstein watch (franken) is any genuine watch that contains aftermarket parts. Some make frankens for personal use to fool viewers into thinking their watch is gen (I rank among this group). Others build frankens as a hobby, viewing it as an intellectual challenge (I also fit within this group). While others build them to sell, as genuine, to unsuspecting victims (this is absolutely against RWG's rules).

A fantasy watch is a fantasy watch, regardless of whether it contains parts from a gen watch or not.

[fraggle42]

Thanks Freddie, I'm now wondering if their namesake was created to be as close to human as possible, but I can't remember enough of the original book to know. I think that was the idea, but of course it all went wrong! Well I now know to look out for other fantasy watch fans and not franken fans Richard

[cjjoyce1]

To add to what freddy said, some purist gen owners feel a watch that is 100% gen parts but purchased separately and assembled by the owner is a franken.  In other words, if it didn't come from the factory or service center that way, it's franken.  It's an interesting (silly IMHO) opinion - a watch that was purchased in 1965 and has been regularly serviced by factory service centers may have had the bracelet replaced in 1972, the crystal and crown in 1977, the dial and hands in 1980 with luminova replacements, and crystal and crown and bracelet again in 1990 along with many movement parts,   But that watch is considered non-franken while a watch carefully researched and assembled with 100% period correct NOS or used parts is a franken.

[freddy333]

As far as Rolex USA is concerned, any parts installed on or in a Rolex watch that were not manufactured by Rolex SA, are inappropriate to that model &/or are not installed as part of normal maintenance become a breach of the Rolex trademark & the watch may then be deemed to be a non-Rolex watch (franken). Therefore, swapping a Rolex bracelet or crown for another that is appropriate to that model is acceptable since this is routinely done by RSCs during normal servicing. However, installing a custom, diamond bezel or removing the date complication on a 1575 & installing the resulting 1570 in a non-date Sub case constitutes Rolex's definition of franken & is the watch is therefore no longer legally considered to be a 'Rolex'.

My guess - & this is only a guess - is that if you buy all the parts that constitute a particular model of GMT, Sub or Datejust (as I have done) & assemble them into a correct watch (which is a franken-gen), the watch would pass muster only until/unless Rolex became aware that the movement serial number did not match the case serial number, in which case the watch would be considered a franken.

[fraggle42]

any parts installed on or in a Rolex watch that were not manufactured by Rolex SA, appropriate to that model &/or installed as part of normal maintenance become a breach of their trademark & the watch may then be deemed to be a non-Rolex watch (franken).

 

So if an owner swapped bracelets of two Rolex they owned neither of them would be classed as original? And I suppose even if they swapped the bracelets back, because the work was not done in an RSC it's still be officially classed as a franken?

 

Blimey, that's a bit harsh isn't it?

 

I suppose it's a bit like the way car manufacturers in the UK tried to force new car owners to use their own service centers, saying that if anything non-OE was fitted, or was fitted by a non-OE garage, it would void the warranty. That was thankfully outlawed here.

[freddy333]

So if an owner swapped bracelets of two Rolex they owned neither of them would be classed as original? And I suppose even if they swapped the bracelets back, because the work was not done in an RSC it's still be officially classed as a franken?

 

The key phrase is 'appropriate to that model'. Assuming the bracelets are genuine & fit within the specifications for the model, then Rolex should not have a problem with it.

[fraggle42]

The key phrase is 'appropriate to that model'. Assuming the bracelets are genuine & fit within the specifications for the model, then Rolex should not have a problem with it.

 

Ta, I see.

 

Not that this is ever going to be a problem I'll have to face really!

 

 

I like the sig. by the way

[automatico]

"To add to what freddy said, some purist gen owners feel a watch that is 100% gen parts but purchased separately and assembled by the owner is a franken. In other words, if it didn't come from the factory or service center that way, it's franken. It's an interesting (silly IMHO) opinion - a watch that was purchased in 1965 and has been regularly serviced by factory service centers may have had the bracelet replaced in 1972, the crystal and crown in 1977, the dial and hands in 1980 with luminova replacements, and crystal and crown and bracelet again in 1990 along with many movement parts, But that watch is considered non-franken while a watch carefully researched and assembled with 100% period correct NOS or used parts is a franken."

 

+1

Rolex watch co has probably made a thousand times more Frankenstien watches than all the world's 'watch modifiers' combined.

[panerai153]

"To add to what freddy said, some purist gen owners feel a watch that is 100% gen parts but purchased separately and assembled by the owner is a franken. In other words, if it didn't come from the factory or service center that way, it's franken. It's an interesting (silly IMHO) opinion - a watch that was purchased in 1965 and has been regularly serviced by factory service centers may have had the bracelet replaced in 1972, the crystal and crown in 1977, the dial and hands in 1980 with luminova replacements, and crystal and crown and bracelet again in 1990 along with many movement parts, But that watch is considered non-franken while a watch carefully researched and assembled with 100% period correct NOS or used parts is a franken."

 

+1

Rolex watch co has probably made a thousand times more Frankenstien watches than all the world's 'watch modifiers' combined.

 

I agree, and not always for the better. How many times were early 1680's sent back to a RSC and their Red dial was swapped for a shiny new white letter dial, old hands that were really OK swapped for new. What folks didn't realize back in the 70's and 80's was the watch when it arrived back from  the RSC looking like a brand new watch, would years later be much less valuable because of the dial swap. same with DRSD, that got white dials as replacements, and later, lumi service dials and hands for old subs and SD's. Value of the watches immediately worth much less.Polishing what didn't need polishing, changing stuff that really didn't need changing, all happened at RSC's around the world.

 

To answer the OP's original question, my idea of a franken (in the context of rep modding) is; attempt  take a watch to  as close to the genuine as possible using as many genuine parts as possible. If you were to use all genuine parts of the correct  era, While technically it's a franken, in a sense it's a genuine watch as well. So for example. I bought a genuine Rolex 1680 case set, gen 1575 movement, genuine dial that matched the time period of the case, gen hands, insert, crown/tube, endlinks and bracelet, i would still technically have a franken, but it would be a genuine franken. i think that a more correct term for one of these is a "Marriage' watch, all Rolex correct parts, but none of which came with the original case. 

[frankt]

It's almost ironic that when I was collecting gens, a "franken" was a bad thing, and now that I'm into reps, a "franken" is a desirable item...Go figure!!     

[Major_Error]

In other words; A gen watch, more than a few years old,  with a leather strap will be impossible to find!

 

There must be many frankes out there!

 

8-)

[ubiquitous]

In speaking on personal perspective, the term 'franken' used to mean (to me) 'a non genuine watch comprised of some or all genuine parts'; at minimum, a genuine dial was a requisite for me to consider a watch as a 'franken'.

 

Anymore... I don't really even bother with the idea of such labels. I think the hobby, in all it's many facets has different meanings and offerings to us all as individuals. Some of us build watches to look as close and exact to genuine as possible; I fall into this category as I find the process to be challenging with the end result very rewarding on a personal level. Some want to customize what they have to make their watches unique and oft times completely different than what the standard fare of any given watch may have started as. There are some out there that like to combine parts from several different manufacturers to make something truly unique and one off. In a way, perhaps all of these approaches could result in something termed as a frankenstein. And really, you have different degrees of each school of thought as well, from mild to extreme.

 

So, I think the interest, and perhaps end goal is just to have fun with it. Make it whatever you want it to be. There really aren't any defined rules regarding the matter, nor should there be