Old Timer 16613 Give me your thoughts, Mod Updates W/ Photos

[panerai153]

I just picked up and older TW best (Sold by the famous Eddie Lee) 16613. Not having mych experience with the TT subs, i would like opinions and of course ideas. Obviously this is and older mode,, as Eddie Lee has been gone from the forums for probably 8-10 years. If fact by the tiime RWG started up in 2006, I believe he was gone. I remember him from TRC back in the early 2000's.

At any rate here is the watch, Swiss ETA movement (don't know as I haven't opened the caseback), but it's either a 2836 or a 2824. The case was reshaped by palpatine, and the insert may  have been changed, the seller was a little vague about some of the mods. The bracelet is one of the "Wrapped" gold midlink bracelets and for it's age, not much wear at all.

Looking at the dial It has dial plots that don't seem to conform to anything i've seen before. they look like they were a cross between a conventional gold surround and a nipple dial plot! At some angles they look too thich and too rounded like the nipple plots, but the lume portion is too big for a nipple dial, but the surrounds look to be too thick for a regular dial. What do the 16613 experts say? Is this dial OK, fair or is it too horrible to contend with ?

 

I have a gen insert, crown and aftermarket tube incoming and a gen crystal as well. Can I get by with that or should I plan on changing out the dial as well? Problem is, I don't know anything about these old TW best subs. are they gen like construction, will a gen dial even fit the case. Right now, it's a pretty nice looking watch, but I want it to be believable? Of all lthe Rolex models this is a pretty popular watch around here, among Rolex wearers, although most I have seen were the Black dial version.

Try to disregard the insert and crown, as they will definitely be replaced by gen parts.

 

Here are a few photos including two comparison shots with my genuine "P" serial 16610.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[panerai153]

To be honest i never liked these and stayed clear of them because of the purpleish colored dial but after i worked on one in person i really like them. The way they look in pics is different than how they look in person. They actually look pretty close to gen in person and no purple tinit. Enjoy it. 

Right, the dial doesn't photograph quite as well as  I would like. It's pretty darn nice especially out in the sun or under bright lights. To be honest, I was never a big fan of the TT subs, but a friend of mine has one, and the more I looked at his, the more i thought I would like to have one. I don't believe that they have been tremendously popular watches, because the used ones I have seen on the VRM, WUS,TZ and Rolex Forum market have not held their value as well as the s/s 16610's. 

[alligoat]

Two things, one, the dial isn't that good. Two, the case won't take a gen crystal. We've come a long way baby! Even a noob TT blue dial is better than this old dial. MBWs are also better. But the case has short comings so I wouldn't get to excited about this watch.

[panerai153]

That' what I want to hear. why I posted the photos.If the case won't take a better dial and you can't use a gen crystal, then it's probably not worth it to spend a lot if money on it. Probably most of the folks here have not heard this expression, but it' pretty common here in the country. " you can put lipstick on a pig, but it' still a pig"!! This one may fall into that catagory.

[sgtguk]

" you can put lipstick on a pig, but it' still a pig"!! 

 

Had a few one night stands like that mate 

[alligoat]

If you could find a noobmariner dial or an MBW dial, you'd have a decent watch w/ the gen crown and gen insert. Still got a swiss eta- clones weren't around in those days.

It would be a decent beater, don't know if it would test for WR.

 

If you could get an old WM9 case, V1, or 1.5, for not too much then you could put the gen crystal in there and have a better watch.

How's the bracelet? Does the gold return down the sides of the SELs?

 

Or what if you bought just a case from BK- the modern TW best?

[panerai153]

Thanks, that is definitely food for thought. I May contact BK and see if he has a case. Would this bezel assembly fit one of the new BK cases?

[alligoat]

No, you'd need the bezel assembly also. As I understand it, BK ships in all of the parts and assembles the watches himself.

[panerai153]

Does BK Have a 16613 option? or does he only make up 16610's

[alligoat]

Back when WM9 was around there was a run of the 16613, but that's been 3-4 years ago I would think.

Get in touch w/ BK and see if he has a TT these days.

seems like the guys over at RWI have built the most blue 16613s lately, some with gen dials.

It's not an easy watch to build, insert, dial and bracelet are all a challenge.

[panerai153]

Back when WM9 was around there was a run of the 16613, but that's been 3-4 years ago I would think.

Get in touch w/ BK and see if he has a TT these days.

seems like the guys over at RWI have built the most blue 16613s lately, some with gen dials.

It's not an easy watch to build, insert, dial and bracelet are all a challenge.

I remember that deal! Seems like BK ordered 100 sets, don't know if he ever got all of them, that was about the time the WM9 SD deal was going down if I remember correctly. I got burned big time on that one, but that's another story!

[StormTooper4]

I've seen Gen Purple Dials

 

 

its hard to capture 

 

 

 

You got yourself a nice looking case there.

[ghost]

Many of my Blue Tritium Sub dials have turned deep purple/blue. All gen

[correctime]

I agree with everything the "resident pros" have already said.

But your hand set looks damn good.

That's gotta be one of the most acurrate pointers on a rep seconds hand I've ever seen.

It's a tad bit short but they nailed to taper

[username here]

the gen 16613 will have various shades.  I've owned the gen twice and had had a fairly dark blue- while one had a definite purple tint.  Because of the variation I don't think you'll have a problem pulling off a dial with distinct color.

 

The indices of your dial look a little off however.  They appear thicker than normal.

[panerai153]

the gen 16613 will have various shades.  I've owned the gen twice and had had a fairly dark blue- while one had a definite purple tint.  Because of the variation I don't think you'll have a problem pulling off a dial with distinct color.

 

The indices of your dial look a little off however.  They appear thicker than normal.

That was the first thing i noticed. It looks like they couldn't decide between a conventional dial plot with thin surround and a "nipple" dial plot, so the made one in between!!

[panerai153]

Postman delivered a package today, sort of surprised me, because I thought it would be after Memorial Day getting here. When I opened the package, my first thoughts were my man must have put a genuine TT in the box by mistake!!!

From all the comments, the old watch suffered from many ills, almost and ICU case, but with prospects for recovery with the right medicine. Mainly the dial as you  can see from the photos above suffered from the "purples" also the yellow gold? surrounds were terrible. not much to like on the dial, the pearl was pretty bad, and the insert was purplish as well. So how do you cure these ills, you can't use fake medicine, you got to use the real stuff, so that's what we did. insert replaced with a genuine, Dial replaced with a genuine, Crown/tube replaced with genuine. Unfortunately, this watch will not accept a genuine crystal, which is really too bad, as that would have been a nice replacement. Another little fix was gold plating the sides of the mid links part of the endlinks.

 

Someone who looked at the watch while it was at the modders, commented that I ought to try to find a better case, i.e. one that would accept genuine parts like the crystal, bezel, etc. Here are my feeling about that. It's a great idea, but First off, I really like the older watches with lugholes and I doubt that it would be easy to find an early 16610/16613 rep case w/ lugholes. Second, you got to stop somewhere!! A new case would mean that A new crystal would be needed, and then, maybe slip in a 3135 movement and then new hands would be needed, and of course the old bezel wouldn't fit, so there you go, next thing, instead of having a watch with 1200.00 USD (Ballpark guess?) I've got a watch that cost 3K. So for the foreseeable future, this one is done.

 

Here are a few photos of the "New" 16613

 

 

 

 

 

[jpz5142]

Nice, I like the way it turned out!

[panerai153]

Thanks

[Determine]

Wow! It came out nice! All the scuff marks and scratches on in just adds to the character of it. Along with the o.e. dial and bezel, it look all the more like a well-worn genuine. As most people will think the gold on a fake would have worn off by now. Great work! Enjoy mate!

 

 

D

[alligoat]

Nice job AP! The gen dial and insert are great and I agree, you've gone as far as you should with this one. I do like the gold plating of the sides of the center links.

[justlounging]

Congrats and mine says hi

[heero]

Did you by this watch in m2m sales from the UK? If so I was supposed to get her! I've gotta ask.... How did you go about plating the SEL sides? Im trying to figure out how to do this with a new MBK bracelet.

[preacher62]

That looks like one of the "wrapped" bracelets that was going around when the Euromariners were out.  They are gold-filled and gold-filled is very different from gold plated.  It is where a thin layer of gold is actually heat-bonded to the base metal.  It is not an electro-plating process.  My granddad's pocket watch is 75 years old and still looks good.  It's gold-filled.

[panerai153]

Did you by this watch in m2m sales from the UK? If so I was supposed to get her! I've gotta ask.... How did you go about plating the SEL sides? Im trying to figure out how to do this with a new MBK bracelet.

No, I bought it from a seller over on repgeek, seller is a nice guy from Greece. The fellow who replaced the dial with the genuine dial also does electro plating, he plated the sides of the mid links. Unfortunately, this case is non gen like construction, gen crystals won't fit, so I've gone as far as I can go with modding it. It's now up with MD2020 getting the hands relumed. The gen dial glows like all gen Rolex dials, but the hands were very weak. Hopefully when I get it back, everything will glow the same, then back on the bracelet, back on my wrist and good to go. It is indeed "gold wrapped" or gold filled, and I was told it should hold up very well,like the old gold capped watches from years back, hope so anyway.