FYI no more Paypal Watch international,"Mary and Rochest"

[Mike on a bike]

Was reading thread other RWG it seems somebody started dispute all sorts of problems so no more PP for them.

 

linky; http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=51605&st=0

[sgtguk]

Whilst I'm not convinced it's always a noob at fault with these PP disputes I do agree on some sort of vetting procedure for access to our TD's. It is down to the dealers which forms of payment they will or will not take, PP is easy for most transactions, and I would assume it's a very small proportion that go tits up for the TD, they inbuild that cost into the price of their stock, in effect we all pay the price for these dickheads   

[Mike on a bike]

Sgt I know you read the thread Toro was also on been getting burnt W/PP disputes. I hate WU PayPal is so much easier and safer dick heads are going ruin it for all.

[panerai153]

Whilst I'm not convinced it's always a noob at fault with these PP disputes I do agree on some sort of vetting procedure for access to our TD's. It is down to the dealers which forms of payment they will or will not take, PP is easy for most transactions, and I would assume it's a very small proportion that go tits up for the TD, they inbuild that cost into the price of their stock, in effect we all pay the price for these dickheads

I tend to agree, the problem is, sometimes we get these "rogue" members who hang around for a while, and then they scam a bunch of folks and disappear.

Looking at the problem from the other side, it's sometimes the dealer who isn't doing their job, and especially not communicating with the buyer, and I'm not talking about the "nuisance" buyer that sends and email every 6 hours ,for days, but the buyer that sends one or two over the course of several weeks and gets no response. I certainly don' think that was the case with Mary and this buyer, but we have had quite a few cases where dealers didn't hold up their end of the bargain either.

I have a personal incident that happened to me recently. I ordered a Pre Daytona dial from DW. It was sent onApril 4th according to the tracking number he sent. A couple of weeks back I emailed him that the dial hadn't arrived and I still wasn't getting anything with USPS tracking, and would he please check with his PO to see what was going on. I never got any response from him at all. I still don't have the dial, at least not by last Sunday when we left for vacation. Hopefully, I'll get the dial, end if I don't possibly he will send another one. I'm not about to open a PayPal dispute over a 150.00 USD dial, but I can just about guarantee that there are a bunch of noobs on the forum that would have, just based on the dealer not having the common courtesy to sit down for a couple of minutes and send the buyer an email, saying that he would check on the package.

[Mike on a bike]

 I think all of us knowing Mary's very good communications are falling down firmly on WI's side that being said in the past I have always contented PP with it's up and down sides was the cost of doing business for the dealers. If WI is ditching it and Toro is making noise it is most likely getting out of hand w/disputes. I like you am not one to file but it now  looks like I am out a $100 on a strap waited to long, no names yet still have hope. I personally will not use WU so unfortunately I have lost a good responsive TD and they have lost a customer. Those used to ordering products in the western world are unaccustomed to the way the REP world works this will not end and that is for honest problems not guys scamming dealers. The scam guys will always be around and I think the dealers know this but with it on the rise and noobs filing at the drop of a pin for PP it is just a matter of time in our world.

[fraggle42]

I had just emailed WI with an order when this idiot caused all the problems and got their PP blocked. Rochest had to email me back letting me know that PP wasn't an option anymore.

 

I've never used WU before but I have heard all the stories that seem to imply it's used 100% by scammers.

 

What is the difference between PP and WU when making online payments?

 

Charges seem to be roughly similar. Does WU try to link to your CC or debit card or bank account to fund transfers? Any protection for buyers at all?

[Mike on a bike]

fraggle thing about WU is you are wiring money end of story no buyer protection, as far as details of use I do not know.

[fraggle42]

Yeah I thought as much.

 

I suppose that's not a problem if you know the seller but I've never used WI before and whilst I appreciate they're TDs on at least 2 forums, you know, I'm still a bit wary until I receive the first order without any probs

 

PP is far from perfect, I hate the way they try to get you to register your bank account with them, so they can very easily whip money back out of your account when they feel like it (in a dispute, regardless of who is in the wrong)

[Jkay]

Yeah I thought as much.

 

I suppose that's not a problem if you know the seller but I've never used WI before and whilst I appreciate they're TDs on at least 2 forums, you know, I'm still a bit wary until I receive the first order without any probs

 

PP is far from perfect, I hate the way they try to get you to register your bank account with them, so they can very easily whip money back out of your account when they feel like it (in a dispute, regardless of who is in the wrong)

 

Watch International actually started the QC photo ball rolling. Andrew and Josh would rather be dead than send out QC photos but enough people began asking for them due to Watch International's photos that they began to do it, reluctantly.

 

Mary and Rochest are more personal shoppers than anything else. They can comb the acres and acres of booths and tables in the watch bazaars until they find what you need. Also their price is normally lower than the larger dealers.

[sgtguk]

I tend to agree, the problem is, sometimes we get these "rogue" members who hang around for a while, and then they scam a bunch of folks and disappear.

Looking at the problem from the other side, it's sometimes the dealer who isn't doing their job, and especially not communicating with the buyer, and I'm not talking about the "nuisance" buyer that sends and email every 6 hours ,for days, but the buyer that sends one or two over the course of several weeks and gets no response. I certainly don' think that was the case with Mary and this buyer, but we have had quite a few cases where dealers didn't hold up their end of the bargain either.

I have a personal incident that happened to me recently. I ordered a Pre Daytona dial from DW. It was sent onApril 4th according to the tracking number he sent. A couple of weeks back I emailed him that the dial hadn't arrived and I still wasn't getting anything with USPS tracking, and would he please check with his PO to see what was going on. I never got any response from him at all. I still don't have the dial, at least not by last Sunday when we left for vacation. Hopefully, I'll get the dial, end if I don't possibly he will send another one. I'm not about to open a PayPal dispute over a 150.00 USD dial, but I can just about guarantee that there are a bunch of noobs on the forum that would have, just based on the dealer not having the common courtesy to sit down for a couple of minutes and send the buyer an email, saying that he would check on the package.

 

Sorry to hear your having some issues mate   and yes your correct I think at that stage and without any comms from the seller most noobs would have hit the panic button! 

 

WI is not a dealer I have dealt with as yet tbh, but I have tried to, they just couldn't source one of two pieces I was after that's all, but I have only heard great things about them and my email's were answered within 24 hrs each time.

 

My rule of thumb is that regardless of payment methods if they are trusted on the forum then I will have some form of support should things go tits up, that's not to say I will run to a mod at the drop of a hat but if I have a real issue then I'd expect some help from the board with it. 

 

Not used WU yet and prefer PP simply because it's online and it's bloody easy to use, the protection pp offers me doesn't really enter my mind as far as TD's are concerned tbh, but for noobs it's not that easy, they have no basis to trust a dealer other than we all say 'yes use so and so, you can trust them' we aren't the one who has just popped $ 3-400 on a rep are we?

 

Scammers are another thing altogether, fucking hate scammers! They will always be around and much like stores accept that some stock will be stolen from their shelves, then the dealers who sell over the net must accept that the same will apply to them too, don't get me wrong I do feel for the dealers especially WI who are a one man band as such, they did everything they could afaik inc sending replacements out a second time to the guy to then have him ask for a refund again! What they should be doing is looking at more ways to safeguard themselves against these scammer fuckwits now and for the future....................my 2c     

[fraggle42]

Watch International actually started the QC photo ball rolling. Andrew and Josh would rather be dead than send out QC photos but enough people began asking for them due to Watch International's photos that they began to do it, reluctantly.

Mary and Rochest are more personal shoppers than anything else. They can comb the acres and acres of booths and tables in the watch bazaars until they find what you need. Also their price is normally lower than the larger dealers.

Thanks JKay. I think I'll use one of their alternative payment methods this time then, people who start customer initiatives like QC pics deserve to be supported.

Richard

[Mike on a bike]

This has been resolved and from what I understand WI will take PP for now.   The PP dispute guy was talked down off of the ledge ! :bangin:

[fraggle42]

Can't RWG simply hide the TD forums from non-contributing members?

You have to be a VIP or above member to even know their forums exist here?

My thinking is the noobs who just demand a dealers name to buy a watch or 3 and then bugger off, never to be heard of again, will never buy any membership, and THB who cares about them?

The noobs who want to buy a decent rep AND who enjoy the community and chat will stop by and become regulars.

After 'x' posts (100?) the system could send them a PM 'Congratulations, you've reached level 1 and I can inform you that with any level of (contributing) RWG membership you will get access to the trusted dealer forums" which should encourage them to join.

If done right and policed, we may even find that TDs love our members to the extent they withdraw from other forums and become exclusive!

Richard

[Mike on a bike]

Preaching to the choir here my friend,

 

PS the chief is ready to put me in a straight jacket I am so aggressive on such matters !

[ramviksrille]

On my bank app i open and close my accounts for transfers both abroad and online. That stops pp from doing anything i don't allow them to. Maybe this is possible with your bank aswell?

PP is far from perfect, I hate the way they try to get you to register your bank account with them, so they can very easily whip money back out of your account when they feel like it (in a dispute, regardless of who is in the wrong)

[Mike on a bike]

ramvik interesting ,must check that out.

[KB]

Ok some points from a dealer...

 

I have burnt 3 or 4 PP accounts and lost plus 2K on disputes that should not have happened.

 

In every case it was a noob, so yes that is where the problem lies but for obvious reasons.

 

1. A not well know fact is that noobs make up close to 90% of dealers sales, so we simply cannot afford to screen them.

 

2. Most noobs come to the dealer with no board interaction at all, they do not know (nor care) the accepted method of sorting issues. If they don't get what they want they go to Paypal.

 

3. Then you have the noob who comes to these boards simply to run a scam, obviously there is no reasoning with these guys and PP makes it far to easy for them. Goods not as described it a very hard claim for a dealer to fight when he needs to cover the fact they are replica goods. If you do somehow win that one and the buyer comes back with goods are fake/replica PP can burn your account.

 

A little know fact (at least here in Oz) is that Paypal can be blocked from accessing your bank account, yes they will probably chuck a hissy fit and burn your account but if they are trying to get $1500 (which they tried with me) to pay back a scammer it is probably worth it.

 

Ken

[Pihlippe]

 

This has been resolved and from what I understand WI will take PP for now. The PP dispute guy was talked down off of the ledge ! :bangin:

 

 

 

 

The problem with PP disput with WI is solved, with the help of a RWG moderator. 
It should be said that noobs should use WU only though ....

 

Edited May 18, 2013 by Pihlippe

[Mike on a bike]

Pihlippe I was aware that Richard was able to take him down just did not seem relevant to the info I was conveying.   But let us give credit where credit is due for sure!

[fraggle42]

On my bank app i open and close my accounts for transfers both abroad and online. That stops pp from doing anything i don't allow them to. Maybe this is possible with your bank aswell?

 

You can create and close bank accounts online?

 

Wow!

 

My banking online system goes to my accounts (checking, saving, mortgage, credit card, etc) and allows me to manage them, but I certainly cannot open noew accounts or close any of them.

 

That is something that is infrequently done in the UK and you need to have a very good reason to open another one. I've had my main account for 12 years with my current bank, and 12 years ago when I decided to change banks a couple just didn't want to know when I asked to open an account with them.

 

I got the impression they aren't interested in a (mature!) student with not a lot of money

[fraggle42]

Ok some points from a dealer...

 

I have burnt 3 or 4 PP accounts and lost plus 2K on disputes that should not have happened.

 

In every case it was a noob, so yes that is where the problem lies but for obvious reasons.

 

1. A not well know fact is that noobs make up close to 90% of dealers sales, so we simply cannot afford to screen them.

 

2. Most noobs come to the dealer with no board interaction at all, they do not know (nor care) the accepted method of sorting issues. If they don't get what they want they go to Paypal.

 

3. Then you have the noob who comes to these boards simply to run a scam, obviously there is no reasoning with these guys and PP makes it far to easy for them. Goods not as described it a very hard claim for a dealer to fight when he needs to cover the fact they are replica goods. If you do somehow win that one and the buyer comes back with goods are fake/replica PP can burn your account.

 

A little know fact (at least here in Oz) is that Paypal can be blocked from accessing your bank account, yes they will probably chuck a hissy fit and burn your account but if they are trying to get $1500 (which they tried with me) to pay back a scammer it is probably worth it.

 

Ken

90% of business is from noobs? No, no dealer could afford to ignore that.

 

Ken, trying to categorise the reasons for the noobs going to PayPal could you put a percent figure on these guessed reasons (and add others you will know of)

 

1) Noob is used to Amazon order timescales and panics due to rep order timescales

2) Noob is used to Amazon order timescales, is arrogant and opens PP dispute (rather than panics) due to rep order timescales

3) Noob is ok with rep timescales but panics due to lack of replies from sellers re. basic queries (obviously doesn't apply to many TDs, but certainly does to some)

4) Noob is ok with rep timescales, but is arrogant and due to lack of replies from sellers re. basic queries (obviously doesn't apply to many TDs, but certainly does to some) opens PP dispute.

5) Noob has unrealistic expectations of a rep due to poor research and panics when they receive rep

6) Noob has unrealistic expectations of a rep due to whatever, is arrogant and opens PP dispute

7) Noob is a scammer

 

Would having a link / reference to a "Official Support Forum" (not the forums you already have, as I consider them sales channels) help in the cases of 1, 3 and 5?

 

I'm thinking these official support forums would be additional forums here where experienced members / mods can assure the noobs that "This is how the process works, yes it takes time; Yes dealer 'XYZ' doesn't answer emails instantly; Sorry to hear your expectations were not met, didn't you get the QC pics and look at the pics on the dealers site?"...

 

 

R

[Russ1965]

What is the difference between PP and WU when making online payments?

 

Charges seem to be roughly similar. Does WU try to link to your CC or debit card or bank account to fund transfers? Any protection for buyers at all?

They both rip you off.

 

Both firms can debit your credit card and is perhaps safer than allowing them access to your bank account.

 

WU's commission is akin to daylight robbery (works out to be around 10%)

[KB]

The funny thing is @fraggle that I once made an Amazon purchase and it took 3 Months to get the item.

 

 

Ken

[fraggle42]

Heh. Amazon slow delivery shocker!

I've had deliveries from Amazon where there was an obvious large hole in the box. Not their fault but the delivery driver was very sheepish and I made him wait for ages whilst I checked the goods (luckily ok) and then gave him an earful.

Richard