freddy333 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Can you tell wich is gen and wich is rep? Bottom is gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowprofile Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 if it cant be repped properly i would buy a gen. The daytona is one and the day date 18238 is another. the former is thin and the latter is heavy but if someone reps the daytona with frozen sec hand and thin correct 1:1 case, and maybe the 18238 made of tungsten and wrapped then ill sell the gens and get the reps . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geof3 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 I've always had gens, still mostly do. Once I got into this hobby I realized, like others have said, that there is a level of "fun" one can have obtaining parts and building your own watch. Full blown rep, or no-name homage. Personally, I'm only interested in a rep, or Franken, of vintage watches that are unobtainium. I've always been a Rolex fan, mostly due to the heritage, more due to the timeless style of the watches. The newer models kill it for me, I would never own one, rep or gen. I would, however, do a rep of say, a Bond sub, or DRSD or something like that. It's kinda like having a Cobra or Porsche Spider replica. The current Franken I have now is a 5500 Explorer, gilt dial. Cool little watch that is primarily gen. Where I have some difficulty with the whole rep game is with current models, whatever the brand. That's just not my thing, but to each his own. This is a very cool site that seems to lack the utter snobbery of other watch sights, where even a discussion of a simple modification of certain brands will get you tossed... Silly. When its all said and done, it's just a watch... that's it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 I have some nice gens and two frankens. Guess how long it's been since I wore a gen? Yes they are impeccably nice, but I wear the frankens because I built them. There's something fascinating about learning every minute detail of a watch as you recreate it from parts scattered across the globe. Then you put them together and sometimes it feels clunky and wrong, even thought the components are 100% right. So you go to work making the bits fit together correctly and recreating the wear it should have accumulated in its faux life. Sometimes it clicks and your lizard brain agrees subliminally with your higher brain and you know you've got a winner. Other times it's just a clunky assemblage of parts. There's the challenge: it's the intangibles that make this frustrating, and rewarding. There's no similar challenge with gens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidle Posted May 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 There's the challenge: it's the intangibles that make this frustrating, and rewarding. There's no similar challenge with gens. I agree and understand, but why not restore a nice vintage watch,... or are they not your taste of design? Or maybe even built a new unique watch wit it's own design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Honestly, I don't know many people that would be able to restore a vintage watch.. That is left up to the professionals imo. There are only a handful of guys that can restore vintage watches properly. They are very well known and have great reputations, I can't see a single reason for a regular person, who isn't one of those few guys, to attempt to "restore" a vintage watch, especially a rolex. Do you see something wrong with trying to recreate a vintage piece that most of us can't afford? It's fun as others have said and takes patience, knowledge and skill to be able to source the right parts, get it all assembled and have a beautiful representation of an otherwise unattainable piece of horological history.. I can't afford a 100k rolex 6538 so I made one. I made it within the budget that I wanted to use and with the exact parts I wanted. There is nothing wrong with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theiwcroo Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 classic question... in my opinion, most people pursue replicas because they can't afford the real watch. we all know many of these people who wear the watch to pass it off as something that it is not. this is unfortunate because as a fan of haute horology - as many have mentioned in this thread and all over the rwg site - replicas (from basic rep's to super reps to franken's to whatever) are exciting and lot of fun. i own a few gens and a few replicas and i enjoy them tremendously from the aspect of watchmaking and aesthetics. rationally, i believe you can explain most behaviour with simple economics. the opportunity cost and inherent value of any gen is ridiculous. there is no reason to purchase a gen patek; the incremental gain of enjoyment of the gen versus a replica is nonsensical (please note that the exception is people who sell or trade watches for a living as this would then be derivative on market forces for value just like diamonds where a real diamond has a market value of x and a zirconium diamond has a value of y). the interesting aspect is that, at the end of the day, we are many parts irrational and the ultimate answer and choice is probably some amalgam reflection of personal mores and desires one ascribes to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icoopernicus Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Also like the Omega; nice choice! But as you mention there is a definite difference in quality! Why would you settle for a rep if it looks like it? Especially if you can afford the 'real deal'!? The fact that I can afford a gen, or a couple of gens certainly doesn't mean that I can afford all gens. If I get the rep and it is great then I will probably stick with it, if I find it to be lacking I will take a harder look at a gen. I don't currently own any Gens of watches that have great reps, if I own a gen, it's because I love the watch and there is no good replica. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 I agree and understand, but why not restore a nice vintage watch,... or are they not your taste of design? If I was able to produce an original design that was both compelling & aesthetically superior to all others, I would certainly get to work toot sweet. In lieu of that, I have restored some gens along the way. There was a thread detailing the restoration of 1 of my DJs, but it apparently got lost during 1 of our system upgrades. However, I do have a few pics In general, just about anyone with the skills/tools to construct a franken, can restore a basic, genuine watch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Nice photos, Freddy. Here's one I cleaned up and put back to factory spec. Do I wear it? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Thx, I understand. Indeed recent history showed us a drop in value for most vintage Rolex models. Also it is a kind of a myth we all believe in. Probably most steel Daytona's are just laying in a safe. I do like watches but never looked at them as an investment. Maybe also because I buy to wear and not planning on sell them. Of-course Sometimes I do sell a watch, but not as often as my other half wishes. ;-) If you get the right one at the right brice it could be the best investment you ever made, Newman daytonas were not popular as far as i know when first released, bond subes were nothing special either, but look what they command now! Also like the Omega; nice choice! But as you mention there is a definite difference in quality! Why would you settle for a rep if it looks like it? Especially if you can afford the 'real deal'!? Yes most of the time, but there have been some that have astounded with the quality like the first steelfishes, also on a value for money, what other "swiss" (if you are lucky) powered, stainless steel, saphhire crystaled watch can you buy on the high street for rep prices,$300-400, Not a lot! it is just the quality control that lets them down most of the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidle Posted May 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) If I was able to produce an original design that was both compelling & aesthetically superior to all others, I would certainly get to work toot sweet. In lieu of that, I have restored some gens along the way. There was a thread detailing the restoration of 1 of my DJs, but it apparently got lost during 1 of our system upgrades. However, I do have a few pics In general, just about anyone with the skills/tools to construct a franken, can restore a basic, genuine watch. Nice restoration and pictures! Edited May 21, 2013 by Bidle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlnlnlnene Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) No fakes can touch the high end watches in terms of workmanship and beautifully decorated in house movements.And then there are rolexes which the reps simply don't come close enough in terms of authentication details.As far as restoring a vintage goes... They're too old for me. And I don't have time nor passion for watch repairs. Edited May 21, 2013 by nlnlnlnene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 No fakes can touch the high end watches in terms of workmanship and beautifully decorated in house movements. And then there are rolexes which the reps simply don't come close enough in terms of authentication details. But when you look at somthing like a Tag or a breitling with an ETA, or even IWC for that matter! on the second comment there are some that come scarily close!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlnlnlnene Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) But when you look at somthing like a Tag or a breitling with an ETA, or even IWC for that matter! on the second comment there are some that come scarily close!!!! Yes. And that's why I would definitely not buy those in gen forms. If it can be faked so easily, the manufacturer is not making much of a product. That is, their design skills (see Hublot) may be great but their technical expertise is lacking. Edited May 21, 2013 by nlnlnlnene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidle Posted May 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 I want to thank you all for your nice and honest comments. It was helpful and now I can understand your passion for reps a bit better. Especially the chase to try and create a watch which looks like the 'real deal'.StilI a rep or a Franken wouldn't do it for me, because I know it is not the real deal. To be honest I even dislike fakes. I might be a bit of a freak as I, for instance, also dislike service dials ed. This feeling won't change and hasn't changed the past 20 years as an active collector.I do respect all other opinions and try to understand it. Of-course I'll remain a member as this is, even for me who dislikes reps, a true source of good information with kind members! Maybe sometimes can even contribute some. Only I'll stick with my original examples. ;-)Again thx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Are you going to post pics of any of your original examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidle Posted May 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) Are you going to post pics of any of your original examples?If you like sure! I already posted them on many fora as photography is also a hobby of mine. Most of my watches I have on photo. My collection varies from vintage to modern in different 'classes'. Edited May 21, 2013 by Bidle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 It is more a matter of value than price, That's exactly it. Bingo. And no Rolex - or any other example of haute horlogerie - is a good store of value. So you buy luxury items like this because you can afford to, but not as an investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidle Posted May 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 That's exactly it. Bingo. And no Rolex - or any other example of haute horlogerie - is a good store of value. So you buy luxury items like this because you can afford to, but not as an investment. I agree this the case for most of us, but do know some collectors who buy soley for an investment for some years now. Personally I mostly buy because I like them or because of the history of a watch. Like some Minerva models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 Yes. And that's why I would definitely not buy those in gen forms. If it can be faked so easily, the manufacturer is not making much of a product. That is, their design skills (see Hublot) may be great but their technical expertise is lacking. You dont make a lot of sence to me, the Sub should not be hard to rep but it has been through a million of versions to get right and the pams too, and as to Hublot technical skills http://www.hublot.com/de_DE/news/detail/3465/hublot-presents-the-antikythera-sunmoon-watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utheman Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 I agree this the case for most of us, but do know some collectors who buy soley for an investment for some years now. Personally I mostly buy because I like them or because of the history of a watch. Like some Minerva models. You should post some of your Minervas here. I've seen them on another forum, very impressive. I'm sure the members here would appreciate them as much as I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bidle Posted May 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) You should post some of your Minervas here. I've seen them on another forum, very impressive. I'm sure the members here would appreciate them as much as I.I thought Rolex would be more appropriate, seen the affection on this forum, but Minerva it is. ;-) First up two old Minerva's with a cal. 48 and cal. 49. Both designed by André Frey who has a great place in the watch history. He designed the famous Venus 175 caliber and later start working for Minerva and there he designed the cal. 48 which is famous for the design. He based it on the Golden Ratio. Later he even became the owner of Minerva. This is a model from the 50's I came across and couldn't resist buying. It has the cal.48 Here a later example with the cal.49 As it has a central second. And I like the original 'glass' as it has cracks all over but only shown within a particular light angle. It gives it the charm of vintage. Than my 'André Frey trio',... well as I like to call them. Some took me a very long time to find. I'm literally talking about years,... as when they came out I didn't knew them or just didn't had the funds to acquire them. First a Pythagore Grande Applique. It houses the cal. 48 but with a nicer finish. Second the 140th anniversary with a pocket watch movement from Minerva and refined to celebrate their 140th anniversary. Only 134 were made and 6 with a movement which was already finished. Third, which I found not so long ago and my favorite of the Minerva's. It was limited to 300, but only ~94 were made. It houses a Venus 175, which was designed by André Frey before he start working at Minerva. They used NOS movements to complete these watches. Edited May 22, 2013 by Bidle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 Very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycheez Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 Beautiful. Great pics too. You may be interested in this estate sale : http://forums.watchuseek.com/f29/fs-extensive-vintage-watch-estate-collection-ny-metro-area-over-200-watches-all-brands-862660.htmlSome really nice vintage pieces in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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