Rolex Submariner (No Date) - Crown Slipping / Winding Problem

[frost]

I just purchased my second watch from a TD, and the dealer is now 2 for 2 in failures. I won't get into the issue with the first watch, but this second I received has an Asian 2836-2 movement. I received it on Tuesday this week, and it seemed to work fine at first. I took off the bracelet and put it on a "Bond" NATO, and couldn't be happier with the look. The first time I wound it on Tuesday, it worked as expected, no problems at all. I hadn't worn the watch, and let it run down by itself over the next day and a half. Yesterday (3/27), I pick it up again, unscrew the crown and attempt to wind it and the crowd spins very loosely. Clearly something isn't "catching" internally the way it should be. When I pull the crown all the way out, the hands move they way they should for setting time, but after pushing it back in again, the watch will not wind the way it's supposed to, and the crown spins freely without the normal light resistance you get when winding. If I press the crown in without screwing it down a few times, it will eventually "catch" and allow me to wind it manually, but it's obvious that something is wrong with the internal mechanics.

 

I'd appreciate it if anyone can give me an idea of what might be wrong with it. This is the *second* watch I've received this month from this very well respected dealer here on RWG forums that has had a major problem. Up to this point, email response has been relatively quick but it is often dismissive. The first watch containted a completely different movement from the watch I ordered (as evident through pictures on the product page). I'm beyond frustrated at this point, as he's supplied the incorrect item, and a broken item back to back with little restitution offered other than "send it back. thanks."

 

I don't think I should be responsible for any costs whatsoever.

Edited March 28, 2014 by frost

[freddy333]

The crown is loose on the stem. The caseback must be removed, the stem lock depressed to withdraw the stem & the crown needs to be screwed back onto the stem. If you lack the knowledge/tools, I would take the watch to any pro watchmaker & they can probably do it while you wait. This is a common problem with reps.

 

Remember, 1 of the reasons the gen costs multiple thousands & the equivalent rep is only hundreds is because there is little or no QC involved in rep production. You get what you pay for.

[frost]

The crown is loose on the stem. The caseback must be removed, the stem lock depressed to withdraw the stem & the crown needs to be screwed back onto the stem. If you lack the knowledge/tools, I would take the watch to any pro watchmaker & they can probably do it while you wait. This is a common problem with reps.

 

Remember, 1 of the reasons the gen costs multiple thousands & the equivalent rep is only hundreds is because there is little or no QC involved in rep production. You get what you pay for.

 

Freddy - thank you so much for your quick reply. I completely agree with your points on QC, just frustrated with the situation with 2 failures in such a short period of time. All things considered, if I wanted to take the time to learn how to do this myself, is there a "HOW TO" or youtube guide you could recommend? I don't mind getting my hands dirty so to speak, I'd actually enjoy learning some basics in watch repair, provided I'm not at super-high risk of screwing something up. Based on your description, this sounds like a relatively minor repair.

[freddy333]

Check the Watchmaking forum.

[mymanmatt]

The spring is weak in the crown. After unscrew it and it pops turn it in reverse and see if it will pop out a little. It should wind then. If not, the spring in the crown is bad

[frost]

The spring is weak in the crown. After unscrew it and it pops turn it in reverse and see if it will pop out a little. It should wind then. If not, the spring in the crown is bad

 

After following your instructions, this works, but it is VERY sensitive. After winding it backwards some, it will occasionally "catch" and I am able to wind it forward, but I have to do it very gently or it will slip again. Is there a long term solution to this problem? I'm currently having issues opening the case with the tools I have on hand, so I'm going to try duct tape as recommended on another forum, and if all else fails, I will purchase a proper tool to get it open. Not sure if there's something I can do once I'm inside. I appreciate any advice you can provide.

[dbane883]

Your crown is toast methinks. Inside the crown is a clutch-like mechanism. Its a hex-ish nut that is released when the end is depressed. So either the spring is faulty or the hex nut and/or the corresponding catch mechanism is worn out.

It's an "easy" fix and a great start to get you more involved in watch building/modding. All you need are three tools: case opener, 1.2mm screwdriver and needle nose pliers. And a replacement crown. Might as well get a gen.

Open up the Caseback with a duct tape ball or a squash ball. Or ideally a 29.5mm oyster case remover ($15-20). I find ductape balls don't work well on Rolexes sometimes.

Once open, depress the stem release very very gently while tugging at the crown.

Take the pliers and grab the stem at the square area. Unscrew the questionable crown. Then thread on the new crown.

Reinstall everything. Voila. First mod done. Congrats

[SSTEEL]

Another vote for a crown clutch problem.  There is a spring and clutch in the crown, sometimes this construction can become faulty and cause the issue you mention.  TC had a batch like this too which he replaced crowns FOC to customers who had a bad crown.

[frost]

Gents, thank you so much for help. I'll source the parts mentioned and let you know how it goes. I'm glad this forum has so many members willing to help out a rookie

[FxrAndy]

If this is a 2836 then ensure you only depress the crown removal pin with a 1.2mm screw driver ( there is a 1.2mm slot for a reason) and only do that and remove the stem in the hand set position

[kbh]

I've had one movement, and currently have another one, that slips like that and it's been the castle gear and the winding gear (hope I got the names correct) in the keyless works section that are not meshing and slipping. I assume that its just from normal wear. The first one that I changed solved the problem and I know it's not the crown on the current one because I just swapped movements and the crown was working fine on the other movement.

 

Just another possibility.

Edited April 6, 2014 by kbh

[DVNE]

I seem to be going through the same thing on my newly put together project. Crown is the 702 athaya rep. Movement is NOS 2846

[kbh]

I've had one movement, and currently have another one, that slips like that and it's been the castle gear and the winding gear (hope I got the names correct) in the keyless works section that are not meshing and slipping. I assume that its just from normal wear. The first one that I changed solved the problem and I know it's not the crown on the current one because I just swapped movements and the crown was working fine on the other movement.

 

Just another possibility.

 

Well, I changed them with new ETA parts and it's still doing it although it doesn't seems as bad, which is strange. 100% sure it's in the movement and not the crown so I don't know where else to look.

[frost]

Gents, I finally was able to open the watch and verify this was a crown / stem issue as described. I want to thank everyone here for all their input and assistance in resolving this. I had no idea the stem had such an intricate mechanism. I'll be contacting the TD and requesting replacement parts.

[dbane883]

If I were you I wouldn't bother replacing with another rep crown from the TD. Just get a gen crown..used in good condition is fine. You might be able to use the existing stem..although I'd just replace it at the same time. You can pick up a nice gen 703 crown for $60-80.

Replacing the crown on any (Rolex) rep should be a mandatory first mod.

[frost]

If I were you I wouldn't bother replacing with another rep crown from the TD. Just get a gen crown..used in good condition is fine. You might be able to use the existing stem..although I'd just replace it at the same time. You can pick up a nice gen 703 crown for $60-80.

Replacing the crown on any (Rolex) rep should be a mandatory first mod.

 

I absolutely respect this opinion. The TD is sending a replacement crown. I don't wear this particular rep very often, as I have it bookmarked for casual wear. A little too ostentatious for the office (and most situations really). I mainly like the way it looks on a Bond strap. I'm primarily focused on getting it working and if I choose to invest more money in the rep later, I will. Thanks again for the advice.