Iyho, What's The Most Perfect Replica Available Today.

[crystalcranium]

That is an excessive purist view -- the flyback function is probably the most useless complication ever invented, I would not give a penny more for a genuine chrono with flyback re-set function then for an ordinary double-push one, regretably some of the nice models like 253 and 212 are flybacks as genuine, hence OK, the non-functional flyback reps are not functionally accurate, but out of all possible things, this would be the last one on my list

I guess raw, "lay it down on the counter top and lets look at it" appearance is a more basic need that "function reproduction" but I still wouldn't rate a watch that had non-functioning chrono subdials that were spot on over one that had some minor flaws but had the chrono function.

[Estaban]

I think the most perfect rep, in looks and feel, is this:

Plain Tag Heuer Link, impressive, modern looks and "beliveably cheap". The Checkerboard pattern on the dial is perfectly replicated.

The Link Chronograph might be just as close in looks and more macho... but the feel when you set the time on the ETA2826 is miles better than on the Chineese 7750. Also, the date is perfect centered in this model, in the 7750-version it is a little bit offset to the right.

My Link Review

Regarding the Ingenieur.. Am I the only one who thinks the hands are too short on the replica?

I'm sure I'll ruffle some feathers with this comment, but here goes:

The Tag Links, both chrono and regular, might be very good reps, but why buy one of these? You can get a gen for just over $1000 (or the chrono for $1400). Most watches in this price range never make it to the rep stage (Sinn, Fortis, Oris). Frankly, the other watches have much more appeal than Tags found in every department store.

[chrgod]

I'm sure I'll ruffle some feathers with this comment, but here goes:

The Tag Links, both chrono and regular, might be very good reps, but why buy one of these? You can get a gen for just over $1000 (or the chrono for $1400). Most watches in this price range never make it to the rep stage (Sinn, Fortis, Oris). Frankly, the other watches have much more appeal than Tags found in every department store.

Yes, thats true. There is an iteresting price issue when the gen just costs about five times the replica.. But still you get the "same" watch, even with the same ETA-Movement for 1/5 th of the price. I have checked out the nice TAGHeuer Indy 500 replica ( Quartz). The rep costs 105 dollars, and the genuine runs for about 400-500 USD on eBay!

I belive that TAG Heuer has an excellent reputation among most non-WIS people, (mostly due to heavy marketing)... That is why there are replicas of this "cheap" brand. Oris, Sinn and Fortis are in the same price range, but are more obscure brands.

if only they made it in the same blue as the chrono...

i just cant make myself like the black or white options of the link....

(i just ordered the blue chrono from PerfClones...so pretty)

By the way, SBOB; It is available in blue also, at least Ruby says so in her advert at RWI:

http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9894

[morgan]

I'm sure I'll ruffle some feathers with this comment, but here goes:

The Tag Links, both chrono and regular, might be very good reps, but why buy one of these? You can get a gen for just over $1000 (or the chrono for $1400). Most watches in this price range never make it to the rep stage (Sinn, Fortis, Oris). Frankly, the other watches have much more appeal than Tags found in every department store.

I agree! I see some new reps coming out and when I check the Gen prices they are 1K-2.5K. Tags are pretty common and really nothing special. Why bother?

[crystalcranium]

Yes, thats true. There is an iteresting price issue when the gen just costs about five times the replica.. But still you get the "same" watch, even with the same ETA-Movement for 1/5 th of the price. I have checked out the nice TAGHeuer Indy 500 replica ( Quartz). The rep costs 105 dollars, and the genuine runs for about 400-500 USD on eBay!

I belive that TAG Heuer has an excellent reputation among most non-WIS people, (mostly due to heavy marketing)... That is why there are replicas of this "cheap" brand. Oris, Sinn and Fortis are in the same price range, but are more obscure brands.

By the way, SBOB; It is available in blue also, at least Ruby says so in her advert at RWI:

http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9894

Would LOVE to see high quality reps of Oris, Sinn and Fortis but I see the desireability/price issue for the replicators.

The Oris Artillier Chronos are beautiful watches.

I agree, the Tags fall into the grey zone of why not save the cash for a little bit longer and get a genuine but still, $275 for a great looking, 99% replica of a Link Chrono sure beats $1500 for a genuine.

[MJP]

I like Edge 'cause he has boobs in his avatar. Numnumnum

[r11co]

Yes, thats true. There is an iteresting price issue when the gen just costs about five times the replica.. But still you get the "same" watch, even with the same ETA-Movement for 1/5 th of the price.

Exactly. It is the difference between a replica and a look-a-like. The TAG (and 2892 SMP and Seawolf....) watches are to all intents and purposes the same watch made in an unofficial factory. The best reps come and go while the dross rolls along getting slightly better each time....

[HauteHippie]

No longer current, but the Breitling Seawolf is also supremely accurate - down to the decoration on the movement. Put a genuine dial on and from the front you can't tell. Shame about the use of the chrono avenger caseback...

Mine says "Chronometre" (not chronograph) on the caseback. This is correct.

[themuck]

This topic gets better and more interesting every day and with every post.

I've checked all the posted comments and forum reviews for the reps that seem to be the Perfect contenders so far (alphabetically).

FM Conquistador

(possible polished bracelet, date window, crown and hand colour issues)

IWC Ingenieur

(possible bezel paint, datewheel and bracelet issues)

PAM 050

(possible #6 numeral, bracelet clasp, first link and recessed pin issues)

Seamaster Chrono

(possible bezel, bezel pearl, bezel insert, caseback engraving, slipping #6 subdial, bracelet clasp text and bracelet screw issues)

Seamaster Pro

(possible bezel, bezel pearl, HEV position, crown guards, clasp damage liability and bracelet screw issues)

Tag Link

(possible bracelet laser etching and endlink engraving issues)

Tag Link Chrono

(possible date window and datefont issues)

Is this correct - have I missed anything or included anything that has been resolved?

[sssurfer]

PAM 050

(possible #6 numeral, bracelet clasp, first link and recessed pin issues)

Is this correct - have I missed anything or included anything that has been resolved?

Recessed pin?!? On a 7750 050????

themuck, the recessed pin issue is of 6497 movements only... Where did you hear of it on a 050?

About that clasp and first link issues: I had problems with them only on a cheap rep bracelet, not on that from Joshua. Please would you provide any more details?

[fitmic]

IWC Ingenieur

(possible bezel paint, datewheel and bracelet issues)

Too short hands.

[r11co]

Mine says "Chronometre" (not chronograph) on the caseback. This is correct.

Indeed. The Chrono Avenger says that too. The problem is the '300m' which, for the Seawolf, is incorrect.

[HauteHippie]

Indeed. The Chrono Avenger says that too. The problem is the '300m' which, for the Seawolf, is incorrect.

So you're saying, then, that both casebacks are wrong? The Chrono Avenger should say chronograph, while the Seawolf shouldn't have 300m... According to what I've seen, the Seawolf has an incredible pressure rating of 300bar/3000m/10000ft. So I guess the rep is missing a '0'. Well, at least it doesn't say Shitinerand.

[themuck]

No problem sssurfer - you really know your stuff friend.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...&hl=pam+050

I did notice your comment in there.

Did a search for pam 050 and read all the relevant topics - did the same with all the shortlisted reps.

Last post on that topic was in April so all matters could be resolved.

Thanks fitmic - I noticed a couple of mentions of this as well but subsequent posts seemed to say issue was resolved - included your comments, thanks again.

FM Conquistador

(possible polished bracelet, date window, crown and hand colour issues)

IWC Ingenieur

(possible short hands, bezel paint, datewheel and bracelet issues)

PAM 050

(possible #6 numeral, bracelet clasp, first link and recessed pin issues [all may be resolved with current latest releases])

Seamaster Chrono

(possible bezel, bezel pearl, bezel insert, caseback engraving, slipping #6 subdial, bracelet clasp text and bracelet screw issues)

Seamaster Pro

(possible bezel, bezel pearl, HEV position, crown guards, clasp damage liability and bracelet screw issues)

Tag Link

(possible bracelet laser etching and endlink engraving issues)

Tag Link Chrono

(possible date window and datefont issues)

All further comments and opinions on the above and any other Perfect's will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks All

[crystalcranium]

No problem sssurfer - you really know your stuff friend.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...&hl=pam+050

I did notice your comment in there.

Did a search for pam 050 and read all the relevant topics - did the same with all the shortlisted reps.

Last post on that topic was in April so all matters could be resolved.

Thanks fitmic - I noticed a couple of mentions of this as well but subsequent posts seemed to say issue was resolved - included your comments, thanks again.

FM Conquistador

(possible polished bracelet, date window, crown and hand colour issues)

IWC Ingenieur

(possible short hands, bezel paint, datewheel and bracelet issues)

PAM 050

(possible #6 numeral, bracelet clasp, first link and recessed pin issues [all may be resolved with current latest releases])

Seamaster Chrono

(possible bezel, bezel pearl, bezel insert, caseback engraving, slipping #6 subdial, bracelet clasp text and bracelet screw issues)

Seamaster Pro

(possible bezel, bezel pearl, HEV position, crown guards, clasp damage liability and bracelet screw issues)

Tag Link

(possible bracelet laser etching and endlink engraving issues)

Tag Link Chrono

(possible date window and datefont issues)

All further comments and opinions on the above and any other Perfect's will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks All

My only comment is that making a list of near perfect replicas and prioritizing them by listing faults probably doesn't serve the replica collector's mantra of "All reps have flaws, find one with flaws you can live with" very well. I myself know that often when I find a flaw, it becomes magnified and if allowed to get out of control, can spoil my impression of a piece.

I understand you wanting to get a handle on the best of the best and quantify that by a list of transgressions from the ideal, but that really wasn't the spirit in which I started this thread. This was meant to be an uplifting exercise celebrating the virtues of our finest examples of the replica state of the art.

Or something to that deep meaningful effect

[sailboat641]

Too short hands.

Supposedly there were two genuine versions. One with short and other with long hands. At my local AD, I saw a used Ingie with the shorter hands.

With exception of the date font, the IWC Ingeniuer is one of the most accurate reps. The only other two that could be close IMO would be the Tag link chrono and the Omega SMP (after reattaching bezel insert).

[r11co]

So you're saying, then, that both casebacks are wrong? The Chrono Avenger should say chronograph, while the Seawolf shouldn't have 300m... According to what I've seen, the Seawolf has an incredible pressure rating of 300bar/3000m/10000ft. So I guess the rep is missing a '0'. Well, at least it doesn't say Shitinerand.

Chronometre is correct for both, so in that respect the Chrono Avenger is more accurate, but then the current versions of it have a woeful pearl, incorrect '4' on the bezel and lack of deep AR coating, so it's all swings and roundabouts....

[Pugwash]

My new IWC Flieger Chrono is pretty damned close. It's just missing three dots in the minutes subdial though.

Time to go dial shopping, maybe?

[sssurfer]

No problem sssurfer - you really know your stuff friend.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...&hl=pam+050

I did notice your comment in there.

Wow, thanks, I had completely forgotten that thread!

PAM 050

(possible #6 numeral, bracelet clasp, first link and recessed pin issues [all may be resolved with current latest releases])

Yes, it seems that several inconsistences either do not exist, or are due to different releases.

Let's look at some of them:

possible #6 numeral: chieftang judged it too fat, while in that above-mentioned post we read (dub43 on the old RWG, quoted by olreon): 'The numbers on the dial aren't as thick as the original. Almost but not quite.'

bracelet clasp:

The clasp is wrong. The 40mm PAMs have the single pushbutton release clasp.

dub43 quoted by olreon:

'It's only a single push button while the original is double.'

recessed pin:

And I can't tell, but does your rep have a recessed pin?

Completely wrong guess. Anyone can look at the pics in that post and verify that there is no recessed pin.

As I already said, no 7750 had any recessed pin issue. And I can gurantee that my 050 has not too.

So, in the end, all supposed inaccuracies -- with a possible exception for the first link thing -- are very questionable to say the least. It even seems as dub43 got a completely different model from the current ones (he even criticized the date mag, which is actually a major strenght of this rep instead).

The starter of that thread had to specify which pics were of gen and which ones of rep. This speaks loud about this rep's overall quality.

As a final remark, looking at Andrew's 050 I am inclined to affirm that even those minor and questionable flaws seem over now.

[themuck]

First of all I apologise to crystalcranium for almost 'hijacking' this topic for my own selfish ends - ie finding out what is / are the Most Perfect Replica Available Today so I can go straight out and buy my first rep before probably buying each and every rep listed here over time.

However, judging by the number of views and posts in this topic, I suspect my question was one that many members were looking to find out the answer(s) for so they too could make an informed and balanced decision about their first and / or subsequent rep purchases.

With regard to the list crystalcranium, which is alphabetical and not prioritised because I am a newbie and acknowledge I'm in no position to make any judgements like that, I just thought it seemed sensible to collate all the comments and opinions posted in this topic and elsewhere on this forum by experienced and trusted members so that everyone could see at a glance what the Perfect contender's potential flaws are - and members can perhaps therefore make up their own minds as to which one they believe is their own Perfect rep.

IMHO, for what it's worth, I don't believe that any of the flaws mentioned for any of the watches would be too difficult to resolve either by the manufacturers themselves (via feedback from the trusted dealers) or by sourcing our own local watchsmith who could amend each rep accordingly - in both cases by using the information kindly provided in this topic and elsewhere by knowledgeable members.

Hope this clarifies things crystalcranium as the last thing I would ever want to do is offend or p.off anyone.

sssurfer I am inclined to agree with your final remark regarding Andrew's latest PAM 050 after reading through all the relevant posts in this topic (especially yours) and elsewhere on this forum. Although, once again, who am I to judge as I'm still a newbie and only looking at photos on a dealers website.

Pugwash you might have found another Perfect IWC and eighth Perfect rep contender (any pics?) - do you know if there is any member feedback, rep v gen or other reviews on this or any other forum?

Hopefully without offending crystalcranium or anyone else for that matter and with the list seemingly now complete (IWC Flieger Chrono aside), perhaps the only question now remaining is - What are the best movements for each watch to make it The Most Perfect Replica Available Today both inside and out?

I know there may be a number of these reps that are possibly available with movements that are identical with the gen (some are even engraved the same) but others do not and some movements may be better and more accurate with the gen movement than others.

Just for everyone's reference, here's the current list of possible Perfect's so far (alphabetical).

FM Conquistador

IWC Ingenieur

PAM 050

Seamaster Chrono

Seamaster Pro

Tag Link

Tag Link Chrono

At the end of the day, without feedback from current and potential customers, dealers and manufacturers wouldn't necessarily know how to update, upgrade and improve their products. And, IMHO, I believe it wouldn't take too much for any dealer and / or manufacturer to look at this topic and realise they have the potential to (relatively easily) produce no less than seven of the world's best and flawless replica / clone timepieces - and make a bucketload of money at the same time (seven must buys for every replica enthusiast and / or collector).

What do you guys think?

[themuck]

Just spotted it Pugwash - excellent IWC Flieger Chrono pics.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...274&hl=sash

When's the review due Pugwash?

[By-Tor]

Just for everyone's reference, here's the current list of possible Perfect's so far (alphabetical).

FM Conquistador

IWC Ingenieur

PAM 050

Seamaster Chrono

Seamaster Pro

Tag Link

Tag Link Chrono

What do you guys think?

I think you have missed the "Ultimate" 45mm Planet Ocean.

[themuck]

Many Thanks By-Tor.

Apart from your welcome comments at the very start of this topic, there have been no further contributions from any other member regarding the Ultimate Planet Ocean.

However I'm sure that's maybe just because if you say it should be on the list nobody will argue with the By-Tor

After reading subzero's new review (please see link below) and as more members receive their 7th Generations, I'm sure there will be plenty of other members shouting for the PO as well.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...;hl=ultimate+po

FM Conquistador

IWC Ingenieur

PAM 050

PO Ultimate 7th Gen

Seamaster Chrono

Seamaster Pro

Tag Link

Tag Link Chrono

I know this is off topic but I must take this opportunity to genuinely thank you for all your reviews, advice and guidance etc By-Tor. I've read all of them (so have thousands of others) and it's an understatement to say they are all excellent and invaluable. Sincere Thanks By-Tor (do you think I'll ever see the Daytona(s) I've always wanted on this list lol... - or is there more chance of me winning the lottery four weeks in a row...with the same numbers lol... )

[Pugwash]

Just spotted it Pugwash - excellent IWC Flieger Chrono pics.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...274&hl=sash

When's the review due Pugwash?

This week. Probably this weekend. I need some time to live with it and do my research slowly.

[crystalcranium]

First of all I apologise to crystalcranium for almost 'hijacking' this topic for my own selfish ends - ie finding out what is / are the Most Perfect Replica Available Today so I can go straight out and buy my first rep before probably buying each and every rep listed here over time.

However, judging by the number of views and posts in this topic, I suspect my question was one that many members were looking to find out the answer(s) for so they too could make an informed and balanced decision about their first and / or subsequent rep purchases.

With regard to the list crystalcranium, which is alphabetical and not prioritised because I am a newbie and acknowledge I'm in no position to make any judgements like that, I just thought it seemed sensible to collate all the comments and opinions posted in this topic and elsewhere on this forum by experienced and trusted members so that everyone could see at a glance what the Perfect contender's potential flaws are - and members can perhaps therefore make up their own minds as to which one they believe is their own Perfect rep.

IMHO, for what it's worth, I don't believe that any of the flaws mentioned for any of the watches would be too difficult to resolve either by the manufacturers themselves (via feedback from the trusted dealers) or by sourcing our own local watchsmith who could amend each rep accordingly - in both cases by using the information kindly provided in this topic and elsewhere by knowledgeable members.

Hope this clarifies things crystalcranium as the last thing I would ever want to do is offend or p.off anyone.

sssurfer I am inclined to agree with your final remark regarding Andrew's latest PAM 050 after reading through all the relevant posts in this topic (especially yours) and elsewhere on this forum. Although, once again, who am I to judge as I'm still a newbie and only looking at photos on a dealers website.

Pugwash you might have found another Perfect IWC and eighth Perfect rep contender (any pics?) - do you know if there is any member feedback, rep v gen or other reviews on this or any other forum?

Hopefully without offending crystalcranium or anyone else for that matter and with the list seemingly now complete (IWC Flieger Chrono aside), perhaps the only question now remaining is - What are the best movements for each watch to make it The Most Perfect Replica Available Today both inside and out?

I know there may be a number of these reps that are possibly available with movements that are identical with the gen (some are even engraved the same) but others do not and some movements may be better and more accurate with the gen movement than others.

Just for everyone's reference, here's the current list of possible Perfect's so far (alphabetical).

FM Conquistador

IWC Ingenieur

PAM 050

Seamaster Chrono

Seamaster Pro

Tag Link

Tag Link Chrono

At the end of the day, without feedback from current and potential customers, dealers and manufacturers wouldn't necessarily know how to update, upgrade and improve their products. And, IMHO, I believe it wouldn't take too much for any dealer and / or manufacturer to look at this topic and realise they have the potential to (relatively easily) produce no less than seven of the world's best and flawless replica / clone timepieces - and make a bucketload of money at the same time (seven must buys for every replica enthusiast and / or collector).

What do you guys think?

No offense taken

Your enthusiasm is the reason we continue and prosper.