A question to all the Trusted Dealers

[GenTLe]

Dear TDs,

just a couple of questions for you:

 

1) we all know the problems of the a7750 modded with secs @6 (many IWC / Rolex Daitona and probably some others I can't remember) and secs @12 (mainly Audemars Piguet).

I don't know about the APs, but I'm sure there is a big potential market for the IWCs that is waiting to purchase them because of this problem (I'm one of them).

Since the process of creating a top rep goes through the purchase of a gen to disassemble and analyze, why it looks so hard to copy the IWC module (just consider it's a module that goes over a standard 7750, not anything "fancy") and finally solve this sec @6 issue? There's a big potential market if only this problem gets finally solved... Instead I still see shouts like "New improved over improved, very best, 1:1, ultra modded a7750 29j" which is a proper lie, as even skeletonizing the sec @6 gears this movement is still very bad and stops after 1 week -> 1 month.

 

2) in another forum a recently acquired TD (which has good knowledge of the movements) has set a real QC procedure that, at least, is focused to check if a watch comes with the advertised movement (i.e. if it's paid for an ETA is must be an ETA, if it's paid for an A2836 it must be a proper A2836 and not one of these bloody clones of the clones AKA new breed asian high beat, also called "the troublemakers").

With current rep prices it's not a silly request from our side: we are not paying hundreds dollars or € just for the exterior look, we want to use our watches.

We are ok that we need to service them, but definitively we (at least me) are not ok to get good looking watch and crappy movement inside when paid for a good movement.

Again: I see a big market here for those sellers that can put in place a similar procedure (takes 5 min / watch if closed caseback, and 1 min in case of glass caseback).

So, can you do this? In the end the time lost for QC goes back to you in terms of increase of customers!

 

I said.

GenTLe

 

[markiemark]

I agree! I really want an IWC 3714, but I stay away from them because of this.

They were able to copy an entire P.3000 and now they are working on the P.5000, so why not a decent 7750 with a secs@6 module?

[tomhorn]

1) Because they are selling thousands of these watches without spending the time/money to produce a better movement, and it wouldn't boost their sales enough to warrant doing it.

 

2) That dealer will be fine until he gets busy, and then will have to stop the service because people will complain about how long it takes to get a watch. On top of that, they would have to charge more, and although many people will say they'd be willing to pay more, once they see a watch is $50 more than at Andrew/Josh's site they will start complaining about the price or will go shopping elsewhere. Spending 5 minutes checking a each watch is fine when you only have 10 a day to do. When you're selling 100 or 1000 it becomes a much tougher job. You also run the risk of damaging the watch when you open it. Those of us that have been around the various boards for a while can remember the string of dealers promising higher service / QC, who simply failed after they got busy. EuroTimez springs to mind immediately. He was great when I bought my Ebel 1911 Chronograph in his early days, but flamed out a couple of times before finally disappearing.

[Mike on a bike]

GenTLe talking Fat Panda ? well whomever buy from him till he burns out as Tom has most likely accurately predicted. I do not think they are upgrading the 7750s movements either but you can get the movement you paid for by using the dealer offering conformation till then.

[GenTLe]

Yep Mike :-)

50$ more for a check on the movement version is insane, com'on...

Or they can put let's say 20$ more and clearly state that the 1st point is quality, and only 2nd is timing. I'm one of those that will wait 1 week more to have a good one instead to have "next day crap"

 

About the IWC: well, that's sad!

Edited June 19, 2014 by GenTLe

[rek001]

Who is Fat Panda?

[Mike on a bike]

Dealer RWG BZ.

$50 more ?!

[GenTLe]

As wrote, 50$ more is insane for me. But let's say 10 or max 20 (for a 5 min check and guarantee that the movement isn't a crap one) would be ok for me

[fraggle42]

Secs @ 6 lasting 1 week to 1 month?

 

One of my first reps was a daytona with secs @ 6.

 

Still working fine, and been on a watch winder all its life. I've had it as long as I've been on RWG.

 

It's stopped once when I was using the chrono, reset, all started again, never done it since.

[GenTLe]

Fraggle, you're VERY lucky. But really, also the Zigmeister did an analysis on the "new improved etc etc" and again the problem was there.

And if you look in the IWC page you'll se people with this problem all the time, unfortunately

[Nightwatch]

Hi, good question and interesting points of view in this thread.

My take is: Nobody cares, all profit, as along as they sell them by the thousands nobody will care. If it brakes the owner will either get a second one or another watch (win-win). Those that give up are a minority and don´t count. The TD can´t be blamed either as we all read enough about it and some do work for Years. You and me, we are resisting but for how long? A month? A Year? 2 Years? Probably it´s just a question of time until I am ready to knowingly throw the money into a Daytona or Aproo Chrono.

 

Glad that for the IWC there is a solution: the hw IWC Portuguese Fa. Jones with ever-running seconds at six:) - just $118 from Sead - see those pics and for the Daytonas there is the whole vintage range with running secs at 9, for the AP probably a Quartz will do (same caseset and much, much cheaper)

 

The other question is: what is it the factories have with blue screws?? There are some blanc ones on this, on the gen all are blanc, why do we need blue ones, for assembly purposes?

[GenTLe]

That IWC is indeed nice, but today I've received this one (still to get it as I'm away for work now), so I'm ok from that point of view 

 

 

 

[Nightwatch]

That´s a fine solution Gentle, now You´ve got me looking into Gerlachs ideas:)

[fraggle42]

Fraggle, you're VERY lucky. But really, also the Zigmeister did an analysis on the "new improved etc etc" and again the problem was there.

And if you look in the IWC page you'll se people with this problem all the time, unfortunately

Oh believe me I've read The Zigmeisters analysis and the two fixes for the problem, the addition of jewels or the easier way of polishing the surfaces and lubrication. (a pity there wasn't a long term follow up on how each worked - would have been interesting)

 

I think part of why mine is still working is the watch winder holds the watches vertical, so there is no wear apart from in the jewels.

[panerai153]

With the A7750 that has been modified to sec@12, ( I have no experience with the sec@6 mod) it's a crapshoot. Supposedly the newer movements are better, but I'm not sure that's not and urban myth.in my limited experience, I have three ROO chronos, a Rose Gold Rubberclad, a Safari and a White dial Rubberclad. The RG and Safari are working fine, and have been for some time. The White dial is at a watch smith for the third time. He fixes it, puts it on a timegrapher and it runs fine, he sends it to me and it starts, stops and loses minutes per hour!! I'm not sure this movement will ever be stable and reliable. Probably the only good "fix" for these is the addition of jewels at the friction points, but that's a pretty expensive fix, and only a couple of guys are doing it, so when you send them a watch, you are looking at months before you get your watch back.

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