Submariner Convert

[fotoman]

ok - i never really was a sub fan, never wanted to get one, didn't come here looking for one.

but, i have been wearing my LV sub noobmariner for a week now and i thnk its a pretty great watch.

I want it in different varieties.

Curse you submariner curse you

so - who has the best sub

no, but i want to get a nice gold one. am i correct in observing the great strides in CG's hvae not matriculated to the gold models yet

[section8]

I'm waiting on my 'perfect' LV sub from Paul now, can't wait.

I'm not too interested in an all gold sub, but I would like a TT blue face sub. I wonder how long before the updates that have made it to the more main stream models make it to the two tones and all gold models.

[gioarmani]

Allow me to repost...myself...yet again...:

First (slightly off track but still relevant) I'd like to say--in the long-run--it's probably wisest to stay away from Asian movements, if you can. Good luck getting non-swiss parts and better luck getting it fixed correctly. I know a lot of people like Asian movements and might disagree with me, but you'll do best to stick with ETA (Swiss movements). They last longer, are a snap to find parts for, and are more reliable over the long-term. Now that we've segued into the ETAs, it's a bit easier to narrow your search from here.

I've ordered from almost every dealer on the boards, and then some (including watches from dealers I did not do business with directly, but instead purchased from other board members), and this is what I've come to find. Please do bear in mind I would never play favorites and I certainly wouldn't allow any relationship--business or personal--interfere with my judgement, so I'll try to be unbiased towards any particular dealer, by attempting to speak only from the fact I've personally encountered from my purchases, and the purchases I've made on behalf and/or at the request of other people.

http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_p...products_id=256

(first Sub on his Sub page, for $188--link doesn't work, for some reason...)

In an over-all view, I believe Andrew's "relaunched" version of the Submariner (above) to be the best on the current market. This is, of course, a bit generalized but taking into account the aesthetic pros & cons of all the Subs out there, I think this one tilts the scale to it's favor.

Now, the ETA Subs from both Josh & Andrew are much better than the past generations and have better bands, crisper dial prints, and closely perfected crowns & crown-guards. EL's is also a spectacular watch, seeing as it's the same body & band that Andrew sold before replacing it with the "relaunch".

You also have the choice between vintage and non-vintage models. The vintage would probably be more fun to mod. A vintage Sub fresh from the dealers without mods tends to look so new (without, of course, said modifications) that no one will believe it's real, for its "age". And the believability factor is a heavily weighing option (if not the primary reason) for purchasing a Rolex rep; don't believe those who say they don't care about the brand, they just "like the way it looks", as opposed to simply buying the $30 Timex that looks the exact same. wink.gif So stick with the new design of Sub, if you don't plan on doing much of anything to it, other than wearing it to have the Rolex name on your wrist.

Now similar to almost every other mass-manufactured good on the planet, these Swiss movements are assembled in China. The parts are manufactured in Switzerland, but simply put together elsewhere to absorb a great portion of the labor cost. Eta has their movements assembled in China for most all their buyers: Cartier, Tiffany's, Oris, Baume & Mercier, Tag Heuer, etc. Contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of Swiss movements come oiled--they don't all come dry. If they did, they'd all be dead in a matter of weeks. You most likely won't/shouldn't need to have it serviced (disassembled & oiled) for about 2-3 years of average wear. Most Swiss watch makers suggest a five-year service & cleaning. Also contrary to general consensus, these watches are more waterproof than the credit they're generally given; the sports models, mind you, not the more refined banker's watches like Vacheron Constantin, Patek, etc. It's worth the extra $20, or whatever your area watch-smiths currently charge, to have it pressure tested. I've yet to have one (of my own, or one I've tested for somebody else) that failed waterproofing, and I swim & shower in all of mine.

I'd have to say, depending on which model you're looking for--especially in the Rolex category--Andrew or Josh are your best bet for the best models (go with Davidsen for your Panerai). In true fairness to all the others, the dealers on here are all trustworthy & credible; otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to continue to ply their trade on the board. I've purchased a slew of reps over the past few months, for myself and other people (Subs, GMTs, Datejusts, Daydates, Daytonas, Omegas, Panerai, Cartier, Bulgari, mens & womens, etc...), and I've found these two gentlemen to be the most courteous, the most efficient, and to have the most consistency in their service, their expedited shipping, and their product.

http://perfect-clones.com/

http://www.trustytime.com/

If I had to pick a runner up (in the Rolex category), it would definitely be EL (Eddie Lee).

http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/300thomas/

He's got a great case with almost perfect CGs, and the best dial print out there. I've reason to believe it's the same one Andrew uses in his "relaunch", and the one TTK has in his Asian model as well.

If you don't want to pay the $90 to have your Sub serviced in the next 3 years, or the $20 to pressure-test it, but do wish to swim in your Submariner, then the "perfect" Subs are a good choice for you. I have come to find however, that the "perfect" subs are either utilizing different parts (primarily the cases) that seem to possess slight irregularity's in shape that stray not only from the regular ETA Sub reps, but also the shape of the gens as well. The pearls on the bezel insert tend to be a little flat, rather than having a proper dome shape to them, and the serrated edge on the crowns tend to have more rounded edges, rather than coming to a "point" like they do on the regular Subs. Compared to my gen, the "perfects" also have a date-mag that's a bit too big. A lot of people have the notion that the date window (the white portion of the datewheel that shows through the opening in the dial, directly underneath the cyclops eye) is supposed to almost completely fill the viewing area of the entire cyclops. It's not. In fact, if you take a trip to an AD, you'll see they only fill about 3/4 of the cyclops.

From my own personal experience, I think it's more cost-effective to purchase a regular Sub (the models around $200), and if you wish, pay your smith the extra $90 to have it serviced/oiled (but definitely get it pressure-tested!). This works out much cheaper than the "perfect" Subs, and I feel you'll actually wind up with a better looking watch.

I hope this was helpful.

[Pugwash]

(first Sub on his Sub page, for $188--link doesn't work, for some reason...)

This one:

http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_p...products_id=256

[2005SUBMARINER]

what ever you do ! make sure you get an ETA model ..

[flavor flav]

stay away from the gold subs.....they are not good. gold plating wears off quick on the clasp and looks fake a mile away. also the weight is way off for gold.

[mezzanine]

I would have never thought I would get a black sub, but I cracked and am getting a serviced one that should hopefully last for a while. Haven't received it yet.

I'm trying to make an essentialist collection, where I don't have any watch that duplicates anything already in the stable.

[fotoman]

i love my noobmariner LV, next one will definatly be eta of course for the 28,800

I know there is some decent gold out there, or at least 2 tone. I know the wight is going to be off but i'm th eonly one who will wear it.

I've been checking out gold on gen's and cheap watches for the last few years. there is so much variation that i tink it would be hard to tell aone if its a rep. Rep right next to gen is a different story

[jonthebhoy]

[uziuzi]

sorry dont wanna hijack, but...

I am trying to compare Sub lv dials, and it seems as if PTs ultimate Lv has a different dial than the perfect one from Josh and Andrew ? Seems as if PTs is less "crisp". Can someone confirm that ??

[gioarmani]

The finest printed LV (maxi) dial I'v seen yet is EL's.

[gioarmani]

The pictures don't really do it justice--maybe I'll shoot some more. The print's even perfect under a loupe.

[HauteHippie]

gioarmani, yea that's the noobmariner dial, just with the maxi markers. Excellent dial.

[gioarmani]

[uziuzi]

Wow ! Looks very good. Thanks a LOT for the pics. Can you tell me if it comes with an ETA ?

Date mag cyclop looks also correctly placed. Although I just had a discussion about this with a good friend who owns the gen and the placement of date mag cyclop varies on the gens as well.

Is the "m" bold ? It is not supposed to be. There is one thing that IMHO is still not perfect on any rep dial i have come across: the spacing between the three words "oyster perpetual date". Its strange that they cant get that right, is it ?

I am more than happy to see more pics if you have time

Here is a pic of the gen. Can you try to take a pic of yours from the same angle, same distance etc. ? That would be sooo cool !!

[Golfman]

At the beginning i am a PAM fan..... but i have just order my first Rokex : a perfect Sub from Andrew

The only thing that is scared me is that i am now use to wear 44 mm, and i am scared to feel "small" with a 40

I'll see.

PS : thanks for this topic cause it helps me a lot to choose my first Sub

[uziuzi]

@gioarmani :

Is this the one on your pics? In the pictures in the link below the dial looks not like yours. Yours is "crisper", where did you get it ? Now i am confused...

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=8193

[cskent69]

This is a good discussion. I was wondering, in addition to the information outlined above on the Subs - do any of them have a good bracelet - one without the sharp edges.

I have bought a couple subs - but all have relatively bad bracelets. Not that they are flimsy - they all are. But that they come unfinished from the factory. I seem to remember a thread or ad from a dealer saying that the bracelet was also made smooth. Does anyone recall this?

[TJGladeRaider]

This is a good discussion. I was wondering, in addition to the information outlined above on the Subs - do any of them have a good bracelet - one without the sharp edges.

I have bought a couple subs - but all have relatively bad bracelets. Not that they are flimsy - they all are. But that they come unfinished from the factory. I seem to remember a thread or ad from a dealer saying that the bracelet was also made smooth. Does anyone recall this?

Joshua does this on the best version he sells. The bracelets come out with no sharp edges, and a silky smooth feel that the others don't even approach.

Bill

[gioarmani]

Wow ! Looks very good. Thanks a LOT for the pics. Can you tell me if it comes with an ETA ?

It's an ETA--don't buy anything else; waste of money.

[gioarmani]

@gioarmani :

Is this the one on your pics? In the pictures in the link below the dial looks not like yours. Yours is "crisper", where did you get it ? Now i am confused...

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=8193

Maybe those are older pics--not sure; you'd have to ask him. I know this one is also the same as I have:

http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_p...products_id=254

[uziuzi]

Thanks for the valuable info This is really helpful. It is strange that the pics on the websites are sometimes not updated, where it would be beneficial for the dealer to show an improved model.

But do you see the spacing between the three words is still different on the gen ? It doesnt personally bother me at all. All these high res pics make us collectors forget about how invisible the tiny flaws are once you hold the piece in your hand. Yet sometimes they are indeed useful.