Gen 1016 Service Dial needs a lume job

[meadowsweet_]

Hope I don't bore anyone with another thread about a 1016 build, but after having what amounted to what I thought may have been, for me, the luckiest week ever over on the 'bay, I have found myself with now most likely two 1016 builds. Originally, I had started approaching this build around (in my humble opinion) a pretty nice rep 1016 slab serif dial I picked up from Minh. I had been eyeing the dial for a while and had already sent a gen 16013 case over to Jensen at vintagewatchmaker to be re-engraved and have the lug holes drilled out (both of which were done quite well btw). From there I was going to go the ETA and TC hands route and I had, of course, already procured a perfect bezel from JMB. Anyways, checking on eBay late one night I see an Aussie had listed what appeared to be five(!) gen service dials; all ending on different, consecutive days, all un-lumed, and all priced well under $200 at the time with very few people watching, let alone bidding on, the dials. The one ending the soonest had about 30 minutes left to go and was at $101  when I haphazardly put in a low-ball bid of $225.  I hadn't done a ton of research on the seller, but the dials looked great.  I thought, if for some unforeseen reason I do actually win this and it turns out to be fake, I will have at the very least gotten a pretty nice rep dial for less than what I paid for the Minh dial.  Well, I won it.  For $202.25. And while waiting for it to arrive I poured over the (low-res) pictures and started realizing it was legit.  Even sent the crappy listing pictures over to LHOOQ who was kind enough to look them over and say that he also felt that it was probably gen.

And so now the franken build takes on a more serious tone and the hunt for a gen hands set and a gen movement began

 

I tried to photograph this under a loupe in the harshest natural light conditions I could find.  As you can see there is definitely some very minor scuffs and wear marks throughout.  Frankly though, these blemishes are only noticeable under magnification;  the naked eye doesn't pick them up and I can't imagine them being visible under a plexi.  Also, it'll add to the genuine older feel of the dial (even for a service dial) onc eit gets a proper, more vintage-hued lume job.  More on that in a second...

 

Lovers of the 1016 can, I think< sympathize with my absolute frustration with rep 1016 dials.  I stand in awe that no one seems to be able to get the fonts and most importantly the spacing correct on the "Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified" text.  That one detail in particular drove me nuts.  The coronet and the SCOC spacing on the gen dial have finally put my OCD on this to rest.  The back of the dial looks good for a late 70's-early 80's Rolex in-house made service dial.  Looks good to me, and besides I don't recall ever seeing a rep'ed in-house Rolex plate nor have I ever seen a re-dial done on a gen one so this was just a tiny bit more confirmation for me about the dial's authenticity (sorry about the photos, I had a hard time capturing the Rolex engraving on the tarnished back plate)

 

And then compared to the rep Slab Serif dial from Minh:

 

I gotta say, I was feeling really happy with the build(s) at this point.  Four days later, I went back on eBay simply to check on the tracking of the dial shipment when, on a lark, I just did a quick search of new listings for "Rolex watch hands" and look what had just been posted not twenty minutes earlier and with a BIN price of $185:

 

Unquestionably in rough shape, but still, they were gen cal. 1560 hands from an old 5512 and were being sold as in "destroyed condition" by (I think) a retired/ex-watchmaker.  I was obviously already getting into this build deep, sourcing random gen parts here and there; the original inspiration to go "super-franken" started with a gen double-stamped triple six 1016 case back I fell in love with (http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/178594-1016-case-back-double-stamped/?hl=%2B1016+%2Bcase+%2Bback). Between that and the dial, I couldn't say no to these hands and snatched them up instantly.  Side note: regretfully, the gen 1016 case back is incompatible with the 16000 mid case, thus the two projects: the Eta-based 16000 cased Minh dial, and now an uber-franken with the gen dial, hands, case back, 16200 mid, and eventually a gen 1560. I'm not sure why, but I'm hellbent on using this 1016 CB.  Besides, Automatico was telling me a 1016-dialed 1560 is a way east fit in a 162XX case rather than a 16XXX case; no need to change out cannon pinions, etc.

 

So the BIG and somewhat more pressing issue right now for me is finding a skilled lumer (hopefully in the US too) who is skilled at/enjoys 1016 lume work and hopefully someone who can also do the hands.  I'm hoping the hands don't need to be "repaired" per se, and that they can simply be cleaned up a bit and matched to the dial.  And I know it's a later-era service dial and was most likely slated to be a "Swiss - T<25" branded transitional Luminova dial, but I'd like to give it an older feel with a tritium-esque no glow lume job.  Nothing too "antiqued" or yellow, not even vanilla or creamy colored, but more of (hopefully) a bone/off-white; almost slightly tinted white color similar to limestone.  Does that even make any sense haha?

 

So to wrap it up, I'd love to hear suggestions on lumers, color choice(s) for the dial/hands, criticisms/observations on the dial and hands, the build, etc.  Everything!  The wonderful RWG community houses sime true 1016 afficionados and exoerts and I wold love to hear everyone's thoughts on the build(s) as it stands and where they're going.  Going to part out my super-franken 6263 I was building to fund the completion of this project.  With this amazing dial, I feel like I'm almost there...

[droptopman]

Awesome post. Great score on the dial and hands. This is going to be a really nice build.

I have a Whoopy dial that Pbdad lumed over with Matt for my 1016 build # two. He did the dial and hands. I have not seen them in the flesh yet as they were direct shipped. In pictures the work looks great.

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Sent from my droptop using telepathy

[Dlf]

Nice ...

What a fortunate turn of events, great finds!

[meadowsweet_]

Thank you Droptop. I'll be posting a large thread about the build once it's all said and done. Soon hopefully;)

And remind me again, is PBDad located in the US?

[tomhorn]

Thank you Droptop. I'll be posting a large thread about the build once it's all said and done. Soon hopefully;)

And remind me again, is PBDad located in the US?

 

Yes he is. He also lumed my Whoopy dial. Did a great job.

 

[droptopman]

Yes he is in SoCal. He has a vendor/modder area over on repgeek. If there are more of those dials love to get the sellers contact info from you.

Sent from my droptop using telepathy

[blue.]

That is a great story!
Such lucky bids or low price offers on the 1016 gen parts do really exist! One has to scan frequently all known sites for parts and offers.

 

Try to preserve the dial feet at "all cost".

Your options are getting a proper low beat movement ETA 2783 etc., get the movement prepared to accept the gen dial feet and you are good to go. the result would be a nice, budget friendly, service friendly 1016 franken.

 

If you would like to go "all in" with gen parts, that is a whole different game.

 

A gen case that accepts a 1570 or 1560 movement does not have the proper lower side with the specific 1016 lip around the case back.

On the above picture that is a rep 16200 case (JMB) that has been modded (by Rolojack) and done some extra effort to find a lathe specialist to lathe a groove for the gasket 29-310-8 (the correct would be 29-317-10, but is unnecessary too big in diameter, trust me I tried that).

 

This way you would have a gen 1016 case construction. The question is how well a 15x gen movement fits in a 16200 case gen or rep. Personally see no advantage of the 1570 movement compared to a movement from a TUDOR for example an ETA 2783-84 etc. All watchmakers can service those ETA movemenst at a "low" cost, parts are also found.

 

As all the cases (gen or rep) need a specific mod on the lugs and bottom, maybe it is much more budget friendly to start with a rep DJ 16200 (JMB for example, the basic version that is for ETA 2824).

 

Regarding the dial lume. It is a matter of taste. If you have two explorers you may let one to be bone white and the other patina yellow, that would make sense and give sufficient diversity.

 

Your gen hands are in fact pretty beat up but I think some skilled person can bring them up to shine and shape.

It may make sense to use them only if the minute hand is long enough to enter into the minute register of the dial.

 

The hands can be modified to fit on an ETA movement too, not that easy though.

Your next best option is TC´s hands set V1 or V2 as they are made to fit on an ETA.

 

Good luck and let us know your progress.

Edited June 30, 2015 by blue.

[tomhorn]

The hands can be modified to fit on an ETA movement too, not that easy though.

Your next best option is TC´s hands set V1 or V2 as they are made to fit on an ETA.

 

For reference, I used TC's v1 hands for mine (pictured above).

[meadowsweet_]

The TC hands look great on your TomHorn! Looks like I most certainly need to grab a set (or two) if even just for the Minh-dialed 1016.

blue.: THANK YOU for the insight. I wouldn't even be undertaking a build like this if it wasn't for the trailblazing guys like you and LHOOQ and Automatico have done. I hope you don't mind, but I sent you a quick PM

I'm at a loss on what to do lume-wise. Maybe I'm over-thinking it and should just leave it alone and get some TC hands. I've just never seen a completed/finished watch without lume on it. Any lume on it. It would be one thing maybe if it already had lume old any kind on it, but I was kind of operating under the assumption that I had to put SOMETHING on there as an un-lumed dial might look odd in the watch?

[teiki75]

Nice story about parts hunting, Congratulations and wish you all the best for the build!

Has anyone used/seen relume job done by MY in HK?

[tomhorn]

The TC hands look great on your TomHorn! Looks like I most certainly need to grab a set (or two) if even just for the Minh-dialed 1016.

blue.: THANK YOU for the insight. I wouldn't even be undertaking a build like this if it wasn't for the trailblazing guys like you and LHOOQ and Automatico have done. I hope you don't mind, but I sent you a quick PM

I'm at a loss on what to do lume-wise. Maybe I'm over-thinking it and should just leave it alone and get some TC hands. I've just never seen a completed/finished watch without lume on it. Any lume on it. It would be one thing maybe if it already had lume old any kind on it, but I was kind of operating under the assumption that I had to put SOMETHING on there as an un-lumed dial might look odd in the watch?

 

I would do a Google search for 1016 dials and see if anything looks good to you. Then send the picture off to whomever you decide to let do the work and tell them to match it. That's what I did with PBdad on mine, and with Cwazy on my 5514 dial. Both guys nailed it.

[Skywatch]

meadowsweet,

 

This looks to be a very interesting set of builds, looking forward to the outcome.

[blue.]

You are welcome!

Each one of the members does contribute with his experience, when trying out new things and sharing the results with the rest, that is how the community can profit.

 

Have not received any PM´s from you yet?!

 

The TC hands look great on your TomHorn! Looks like I most certainly need to grab a set (or two) if even just for the Minh-dialed 1016.

blue.: THANK YOU for the insight. I wouldn't even be undertaking a build like this if it wasn't for the trailblazing guys like you and LHOOQ and Automatico have done. I hope you don't mind, but I sent you a quick PM

I'm at a loss on what to do lume-wise. Maybe I'm over-thinking it and should just leave it alone and get some TC hands. I've just never seen a completed/finished watch without lume on it. Any lume on it. It would be one thing maybe if it already had lume old any kind on it, but I was kind of operating under the assumption that I had to put SOMETHING on there as an un-lumed dial might look odd in the watch?

[Lo']

I'm at a loss on what to do lume-wise. Maybe I'm over-thinking it and should just leave it alone and get some TC hands. I've just never seen a completed/finished watch without lume on it. Any lume on it. It would be one thing maybe if it already had lume old any kind on it, but I was kind of operating under the assumption that I had to put SOMETHING on there as an un-lumed dial might look odd in the watch?

 

Hi meadowsweet,

I tried to build a watch around my un-lumed gen service dial and personally advise you against it, since I found it quite dull, flat and somewhat fake, even with a gen superdome on it.