Blindpirat Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Hi, all!Need your help and expert opinion about Gen 5512 mid case and caseback I want to buy. Seller said that case is Gen, and it was a part of retired watchmaker collection.. But seller is not a watch expert as he mentioned..I don't know about black rubber gasket where bezel should be fitted, newer seen this one before.. Not on 5512 or 5513Serial is: 5429xxxWhat do you think, please help!Thank you in advance!Here are some pictures provided by seller:Thank you so much!GlebSent from Hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themannier Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Looks gen to me ! What is the price ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub007 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Uhh, you might better consider my Franken LOL...just my 2 c´sThis guy is selling every year a couple of times the same package. Last time I was watching this was when I was thinking of going super franken so I actually bid but stopped when it got way out of control (the pricing that is). Because for this money you better get a GEN or a Franken (like I have built). ...so might be of help to you (these were the winning prices of the auction back in February of this year)Bezel: 380Retaining ring: 280Case: 980Back Case: 361Total for the casel: $2001 + $55 shipping So if you want to Franken your pants off then add:Gen (serviced) Movement: 1500 euroGen Dial: 400 euro (starting price)Gen Hands: 200 euroGen Tube & Crown: 200 euroGen T19 Plexi: 130 euro (service one that is)Gen Bracelet: 600 euro Grand Total of Parts: $5.030Then add the cost of professional assembly, waterproofing etc....I guess you´ll be at $ 5.250,- ...and for that money you definitely have a GEN and add a grand more and you´ll have one with papers and box LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Looks aftermarket to me. With very few exceptions, I would not generally purchase Rolex parts from anyone I do not know &/or from someone that does not have a long, established track record of dealing in authentic Rolex watches/parts. If the seller is on ebay, make sure they have at least 100 previous Rolex sales & no less than a 100% seller rating (99% is fine only after they have sold hundredS of Rolexes &/or Rolex parts). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub007 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 This guy sells a lot at insane prices (just look at his trading history) but then again....laser welding and all...I would not take the risk on these cases 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 I think the gasket is supposed to be on the underside of the crystal retention ring and not on the midcase. This happened sometime around the early 70s so the 5.4m SN would have it, but not on the top of the midcase IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) It's fake.He sells fake cases, bezel assemblies and case backs on ebay from time to time. His engraving have gotten better every year, but still fake.People still bid on them because the quality is similar to phong. Here's a discussion about his caseshttp://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=295506 Edited August 28, 2015 by pam007 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick1972 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 There was a topic on VRF or on RWG and the outcome was they are all fake. I dealt with the guy before, bought complete bezels, inserts and 700 crowns. They where all genuine. His name is Roberto. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 There was a topic on VRF or on RWG and the outcome was they are all fake. I dealt with the guy before, bought complete bezels, inserts and 700 crowns. They where all genuine. His name is Roberto. the 2 bezels he currently has up for sale are not genuinehttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-Submariner-5513-bezel-vintage-original-/271961696964?hash=item3f522e2ac4http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-Submariner-5512-bezel-vintage-original-/271961681350?hash=item3f522dedc6 I don't know about black rubber gasket where bezel should be fitted, newer seen this one before.. Not on 5512 or 5513 Rubber gaskets were installed on all Rolex Oyster Cases starting around 5 mil serial. Here is my 5.1 serial 1680 with a rubber gasket. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick1972 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 the 2 bezels he currently has up for sale are not genuine I'm pretty sure they are genuine, tell me where to buy an aftermarket bezel like this? Perfect rehaut for the insert. They fit perfect on genuine crystals and genuine retaining rings. Did you ever tried to fit an aftermarket bezel on a genuine retaining ring, it doesn't worked for me. I tried it several times with alot of different bezels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindpirat Posted August 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Thank you so much guys!!!Look like I should avoid buying these. It's sad, I thought to build perfect all Gen Sub.Thank you again for all your time and help!Sent from Hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 I'm pretty sure they are genuine, tell me where to buy an aftermarket bezel like this? Perfect rehaut for the insert. They fit perfect on genuine crystals and genuine retaining rings. Did you ever tried to fit an aftermarket bezel on a genuine retaining ring, it doesn't worked for me. I tried it several times with alot of different bezels. There were many iterations of the bezel assembly from the 60's to 70's to service. At best, it looks like an over polished service bezel, but it's not. I would start by going here http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673 and do a search for "Jacek 5513" or "Jacek 1680" and study the bezel profiles. Look closely at the teeth and spacing If you're still not convinced, I can post some comparison pictures later tonight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 I'm pretty sure they are genuine, tell me where to buy an aftermarket bezel like this? Perfect rehaut for the insert. They fit perfect on genuine crystals and genuine retaining rings. Did you ever tried to fit an aftermarket bezel on a genuine retaining ring, it doesn't worked for me. I tried it several times with alot of different bezels. There are a small number of high end sellers that offer aftermarket parts made to gen specs. Some of these fit together with other gen parts (like cases), but, like the case in the original post, they are still not exact 1:1 copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyldare Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 I had my eye on the 5513 midcase he was selling. Glad I bumped into this thread! Still doesn't take the sting out of the 1665 case I missed out on last week though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 There are a small number of high end sellers that offer aftermarket parts made to gen specs. Some of these fit together with other gen parts (like cases), but, like the case in the original post, they are still not exact 1:1 copies.Yes. Here is an Aftermarket ST bezel on my 2.2 mil 5513 with a genuine crystal retention ring and genuine FF MK3 insert. It's scary how good ST bezels are, with a good polish. The one on from Roberto is pretty poor. Thank you so much guys!!!Look like I should avoid buying these.It's sad, I thought to build perfect all Gen Sub.Thank you again for all your time and help! Sent from HellI would email jedly1@googlemail.com to see if he has any cases left. He has some genuine 5513 and 1680 cases for sale a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionsandtigers Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 if thats the italian seller that I think it is, his items are NOT genuine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick1972 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) There were many iterations of the bezel assembly from the 60's to 70's to service. At best, it looks like an over polished service bezel, but it's not. I would start by going here http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673 and do a search for "Jacek 5513" or "Jacek 1680" and study the bezel profiles. Look closely at the teeth and spacing If you're still not convinced, I can post some comparison pictures later tonight. Don't get me wrong, if I can learn, the better for me. But I bought an sold alot of bezels from the 60's to the service ones on different fora.I bought bezels from this guy long before ST bezels even exist and sold them on VRF to different wel known people! I personally had no luck with different aftermarket bezels (Phong, Nathalie, Yuki, Clark or whatever) fitting on a genuine retaining ring.A few years ago I even tried to make some new gen spec. bezels on the CNC, the guy said it was almost impossible to do so no luck.This is one of my ads on the VRF, old style bezel:http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/thread/1434996796/Rare+Super+Fat+font+insert+%2B+Complete+60s+bezel+assembly+%2B+MK1+Fat+font+long+5+insert I will try to find the ad with the bezel in question. Edited August 28, 2015 by nick1972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Don't get me wrong, if I can learn, the better for me. But I bought an sold alot of bezels from the 60's to the service ones on different fora.I bought bezels from this guy long before ST bezels even exist and sold them on VRF to different wel known people! I personally had no luck with different aftermarket bezels (Phong, Nathalie, Yuki, Clark or whatever) fitting on a genuine retaining ring.A few years ago I even tried to make some new gen spec. bezels on the CNC, the guy said it was almost impossible to do so no luck.This is one of my ads on the VRF, old style bezel:http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/thread/1434996796/Rare+Super+Fat+font+insert+%2B+Complete+60s+bezel+assembly+%2B+MK1+Fat+font+long+5+insert I will try to find the ad with the bezel in question. Never said anything about the bezels, you bought, however long ago.I said the bezels he has for sale NOW are fake. And that Kissing 4 insert you bought from Glenn, I almost had it, but I thought he was wanting USD not AUD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick1972 Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Even in USD it was cheap .Roberto is selling those cases, bezels, etc... at least for 5 years now (ebay member from 2004). If they are fake, why can't we get those good looking fine parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Even in USD it was cheap .Roberto is selling those cases, bezels, etc... at least for 5 years now (ebay member from 2004). If they are fake, why can't we get those good looking fine parts? You can http://www.jewelryandwatch.com/a good fake doesn't make it any less fake Edited August 29, 2015 by pam007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick1972 Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) I dealt with Phong more then one time, sorry not even close. Edited August 29, 2015 by nick1972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seacraft Posted August 30, 2015 Report Share Posted August 30, 2015 His cases / casebacks are fake - convincing fakes but fakes. There are a few threads on VRF on this guy - confirmed fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxico Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 3 things jumped out at me when i examined the photos for wear before i considered whether or not to look at the engravings, etc...the rear of the case where it meets the case back is pristine.the inner lug holes have no wear.the rear of lugs have superficial wear.does not add up to the wear located else where on the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlf Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 shame his prices are so high, esp for fake stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 "It's scary how good ST bezels are, with a good polish."I have also had good luck with ST bezels but always install them as a pair...ST inner and outer bezel. Mixing them with others may not work as well. Some cartel and other aftmkt bezel parts are just out of whack.I will always wonder if rwc makes their vintage replacement cases or has them made by outside suppliers. A rolex 5512/13/1680 etc with a 44 prefix 'genuine' replacement case is not worth much compared to an all genuine example in fine condition. I bet a detailed Yuki or Phong case with a '44' prefix serial number would pass for genuine with most rolex fanboys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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