Gen dial on an ETA 2834-1

[meadowsweet_]

So I was lucky enough to acquire a gen 1016 service dial a while back and have just been offered a very well-priced gen Tudor 2834 movement (originally from a 80s-era Date-Day I believe) that I was thinking about purchasing for the build. Obviously, one of my main objectives here is to preserve the dial feet, so I was going to have the movement prepared to accept the dial (slotted at minute 57 and minute 30). My question is this: will any of the pinions have to be replaced or shortened to allow the hands to sit at the right height/clearance above the dial? Also, I am assuming that obviously the day and date wheels should be removed but I'm wondering if the calendar spacer should stay on? I'd like to thank any and everyone in advance for any insight they may have with this issue. One step closer to finally completing this 1016!

[ww12345]

Eagerly following this, as I recently picked up 2 mid-70s gen 1016 dials and will not cut the feet. Also curious as I have a 1655 which will need the DW, so can't remove that...

From what I understand, you are microns away from the balance and the mainspring after slotting the mainplate...

[mymanmatt]

I believe the feet position o the 1016 is different from the dj and pres. I believe there is enough room to notch the base plate under the balance assy and at the mainspring area. That remains to be seen.

[meadowsweet_]

@mymanmatt great point! That would certainly make sense considering the day window runs from minute 55 to minute 5 iirc. I'm talking about slotting an ETA movement so I'm gonna have to notch the main plate regardless of what dial is on it originally. I have a 2836-powered Air King with a gen dial (same feet position as 1016 dial) on it and I do remember there was plenty of room, relatively speaking, under the balance assay and movement area to notch out the plate so I'm hopeful that notching the 2834 will follow suit.

[ww12345]

Meadowsweet - do you have pics of the process?

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Also, Explorer and Explorer II have feet at 57 and 30

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[Revere]

Curious about any updates here. I'm going to attempt this with a Rolex 1030 movement substitute and a dial from the unspoken manufacturer.

The same issues occurred to me: pinions and stem height. 

[automatico]

"I believe the feet position of the 1016 is different from the dj and pres."

The dial foot position on 1530 base 1016 and DJ/OPD/subs etc are all the same. The 1530 base Prez dial (1803 etc) does not have dial feet but snaps on the main plate...the Prez movement plate does have dial foot holes just like any 1530 base movement.

Here is a good picture of the back of a snap on 1803 dial:  eBay item number  331133548081

[meadowsweet_]

Thank you for clarifying @automatico I always appreciate your insight. Btw, I know you've built quite a few 1016s in various configurations and I was curious to see if you knew how well an ETA movement fits into a gen 16200-series case? Movement ring since OD is typically .5mm smaller than a 3135? I was planning on using a Tudor 2834 or more likely a 2782 I already have but again wasn't sure about stem alignment in a gen 16200 case (I do know the 2782's height of the canon pinion, hour wheel, and fourth wheel are more accurate for a 1016 build).

[automatico]

I made up a '1016' in a 16220 case and used an Eta 2846 with a 'Stilty' spacer and it was a drop in fit. The 2846 is the same as a 2836 in size and the hour wheel, cp etc is a little bit longer than a 2824 so it looks good with ample space between the hour hand and dial. I used a rolex 1570 spec aftmkt dial and removed the dial feet and stuck the dial to the spacer with dial dots. If you use a regular brass spacer like comes in many replicas with a dial with no feet, it is not as easy because the Stilty spacer has a dial mounting surface at the top so the dial mounts to the spacer, not the flimsy calendar spacer on the movement.

I made some spacers starting out with brass flat washers 31.5mm OD x 14.25mm ID x .2.3mm thick or SAE equivalent. They cost about 75 cents each...beats buying a Yuki spacer for $50 but you need a lathe. Precision spacers make these jobs a hellofalot easier.

http://www.yukiwatch.com/catalog/item/7518423/7999848.htm

 

From 10-20-15

The spacer ring you will need depends on the case and movement to be used. Many standard brass spacers used in replicas are 29.15mm od x 26.05mm id x 2.35mm thick...plus or minus a hair or two. I also have one that is 29.15mm id x 25.6mm id x 1.65mm thick but do not remember what movement/case combo it was used in. You can thin the standard spacer rings down to the thickness needed by sanding them down on 'wet or dry' sandpaper placed on a sheet of glass etc under running water using maybe 180 to thin it down and put a smoother finish on it with 400 or 600.

My Stilty Spacer for Eta 2836/46 is stepped on the outside...28.5mm on the back side and 27.45mm on the dial side. It is stepped inside as well...25.5mm opposite the 27.45 cut and 26.0mm opposite the 28.5mm cut x 2.25mm thick. This spacer can be sanded thinner for a no date movement if needed. I used one when putting an Eta 2846 in a genuine 162xx case to make a '1016' and it worked perfectly. The picture above shows the spacer used with a 1680 dial that would be 26.5mm so a spacer like I have may need to be cut down for this combination. Mine worked fine in the '1016' because the dial is bigger in diameter than a 1680.

The standard replica spacer is usually a good fit on an Eta movement and a little bit loose inside the average replica case (depending on the case). The Stilty spacer is precision made and is a very good fit when using an Eta 28xx in a genuine rolex case. I have an MBK '5513' case with a rolex 1520 in it and am going to put an Eta 2846 in it later using a Stilty Spacer. It may be a few months but I will post how it went on this thread. Keep in mind that all MBK 5513/1680 cases are the same and made for an Eta 2836 so a genuine 1530 base rolex date movement will fit but a no date movement will not unless you use a genuine spec calendar spacer and date movement center wheel, canon pinion, and hour wheel.

https://rwg.cc/topic/116411-yuki-eta-2824-adaptor

 

 

[mymanmatt]

The 180xx dial has feet at 4;30 and 10;30  You don't need to clip feet on a pres for any eta. You notch the movement ring.  The datejust has feet at 2;30 or 2;45 I can really tell for sure, and 7;30. You can notch the baseplate at 7;30, but not 2;30. The problem at 2;30 is the yoke corrector. It will hit the foot of the dial and  not allow you to set the time or date. The other dials that have feet in the 5;30 and 11;30 I think can be made to fit the eta baseplate. Never done it, but I think there is enough room. 

[blue.]

There is right about microns of tolerance to the mainspring and balance wheel. Tough job but doable.

The above one I did as a second attempt, the first attempt went also well on a test mainplate. All by hand with jewellers files, step by step, test fit, file, test fit ...

 

Good luck!

[meadowsweet_]

Just some quick photos of a 2784-powered franken 5500 Air King of mine that's had the plate slotted to accept gen Air King dial (57 and 30). Like blue said, definitely do-able, but certainly requires a leap of faith in possibly messing up the movement, as there is very little room for error. The dial feet can also be just barely shortened too to ensure clearance of all other movememt parts mounted onto the plate. This AK runs like a champ, and should I ever decide to "upgrade" to a gen movmnt, the option will always be there (doubtful I'd ever want to though, no point really). Nevertheless less, the process can prove nerve-racking to say the least...

 

(Tudor-decorated 2784 slotted to accept dial feet at minute 30 and 57)

(Minute 57; microns of clearance; pardon the ugly holes too btw...)

 

(Minute 30; again, mere microns of clearance)

[mymanmatt]

You cant get any closer to the mainplate. Just BARLEY enough room. I use my dremel and just slot it instead of drilling a hole. Mark it, remove the bal assy, and the main spring, cover the movement and grind away with my little cutter wheel. So far, haven't messed up anything. LOL

[irate03]

On 15/04/2016 at 4:09 PM, meadowsweet_ said:

Just some quick photos of a 2784-powered franken 5500 Air King of mine that's had the plate slotted to accept gen Air King dial (57 and 30). Like blue said, definitely do-able, but certainly requires a leap of faith in possibly messing up the movement, as there is very little room for error. The dial feet can also be just barely shortened too to ensure clearance of all other movememt parts mounted onto the plate. This AK runs like a champ, and should I ever decide to "upgrade" to a gen movmnt, the option will always be there (doubtful I'd ever want to though, no point really). Nevertheless less, the process can prove nerve-racking to say the least...

 

(Tudor-decorated 2784 slotted to accept dial feet at minute 30 and 57)

(Minute 57; microns of clearance; pardon the ugly holes too btw...)

 

(Minute 30; again, mere microns of clearance)

I am using a 2783 in my build, I wasn't aware this slotting could be done and I removed the dial feet but it has all gone together well. My question is about the tudor rotor. is it gen or an engraved ETA ?

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[meadowsweet_]

Definitely not a gen rotor. Personally, I don't see the need for one in something like the franken Air King pictured above. The movememt I originally got from VW/Jensen (Phong's son), who is a friend of mine and had kind of become my de-facto watch smith here in the US. Reliable, fast, excellent communication/cust. service and an all-around super nice guy too. The 2784 is one of the JAW/VW "in-house" movements they sell, and from what I understand Jensen does the perlage work himself prior to cleaning and assembly. I added the Tudor-engraved aftermarket rotor (had it in my parts drawer) after the fact when I disassembled the movement to slot the plate for the dial.

Side Note: I know people love Phong and Jensen's case work, and rightfully so, but something that I feel gets overlooked from time to time is that they are both also excellent watchsmiths in their own right too, albeit expensive for certain things like the cases and engraving work. Every single "in-house" movement I've bought from Jensen ($200) has come beautifully decorated, well cleaned, overhauled, assembled and timed extremely well. Run as good and as accurately as any ETA-branded movement I've purchased in the last few years. I later showed Jensen photos of the slotted plate and he even offered to do it for me next time at little cost (when purchasing another movement from him), so next time those holes will be much cleaner/prettier I hope LOL!

[mymanmatt]

One other thing. As long as the mainspring assy and balance assy are out, If you happen to go just a little to far, you won't hurt anything. It will just be open space below the mainspring tub and the bal assy. You do want to secure the dial on the movement. You don't want it moving up and down. There is a grove cut under the rehaut that the dial sit's in, that will usually hold it in place. A couple of dial dots won't hurt though. Be sure you have a snug fitting movement ring, that's always a must.

[blue.]

Great job and opinions

[highoeyazmuhudee]

awfully close to vital parts