Date change incomplete on A2836 movement.

[richard591]

So, here we go again, with me being nerdy and looking for trouble before it happens -sorry.

I've just read some blogs (elsewhere) about a non-complete date flip issue on several A2836 movements in rep Rolex's, but assume it's the same for any rep using the same movement.

Apparently, the date was not changing completely without some manual intervention, but not always for the entire 360 degree cycle. Maybe only a quarter or a third of it in some cases, with the rest changing normally. That seems a bit odd. Does anyone know what would cause that condition? Some describe just a slight date/window misalignment, which I assume is a completely different issue/problem of QC.

I have 3 such movements in 1- sub and 2- DSSD's, so am looking for info just in case it happens to me.

What are the most common (and fixable) causes of date misalignment so I'm prepered?

Also, I am currently regulating and waterproofing all, so am taking out winding stem and removing movements as part of the process. Is re-introduction of the stem in to the movement an issue which could cause this in certain circumstances? ie, too much pressure on insertion.

Again, sorry if this has been covered before, so just direct me to the relevant post on the subject, I just can't find it using the search function.

[SSTEEL]

Could be any number of things my friend, for example, do you have a DWO (Date Wheel Overlay) fitted?

Is the date wheel kinked, out of profile?  All teeth good?

Is the channel that the date wheel rotates free of dirt, hairs, grease, oil, dust, or any foreign bodies?

Then there's individual components to check, but like anything in watchmaking, its all a process of elimination unless you are about to completely strip down to fully service, then even after that, each and every part, pivot, jewel has to be checked to ensure everything is as it should be and not missing, broke, or worn.

[richard591]

Don't know the answers to those questions as the problems are on other peoples watches I've read about. I got the impression on one of them it was a new watch that had suddenly developed the problem within a few weeks. In that case I assume, there would not have been any of the kink, dirt or broken teeth probs. What caused it, I can't tell.

[alligoat]

Well you can't rule out a kink, dirt and maybe even a broken gear, but the first two are more common. Asian 2836s aren't put together under the best circumstances, so you may need to be ready to have them serviced if you develop a problem.

When removing the stem, I pull it out to the time setting position and then use a 1.2mm screwdriver to depress the button, anything smaller and you risk screwing up the keyless works. Reinsertion is a go easy type of deal and rotate the crown stem if it helps. Good luck.

 

[mymanmatt]

what ssteel said

[richard591]

Thanks for that. As usual very helpful.

Agreed on the pull out to time set position for removing stem, which is what I always do when taking out the movements to do the waterproofing. As a matter of forward planning I've got another complete movement, dial and hands coming as a quick drop in replacement in case of problems. This allows me to keep each watch in use while sorting out the problems, if they occur. It will fit each of the DSSD's.

I'm getting a faint feeling of deja-vu with these reps. It's a bit like the lotus cars of the 1960's I was involved with, 7's and Elans etc. Great when their going well, but you can spend your life under or tinkering with them every week just to keep them going. I'm sure it's not going to be like that though and am very pleased with the noob V6s DSSD. At present it's keeping pace with my Sub, which has just come back from Rolex servicing, albeit after many Peso's being spent.

Just as a matter of interest, I assume the ETA 2836 would be a straight drop in replacement if I want to take the noob V6s to the next level, but will the dial and hands go straight over as well without mods? I also assume the the stem will be the same. If so, that gives me another route for preserving what is a lovely case and bracelet set on the noob.

[alligoat]

If you have a 2836-2 in your watches- a spare 2836-2 will be a straight drop-in but you'll need a DWO also.  

[richard591]

Thanks for the input. Have thought about this overnight and have come to this conclusion:-

The noob V6s version of the DSSD D-Blue I have is so good in terms of casework, bracelet, very genuine feel 120 click bezel, good crystal with Rolex crown at 6 o'clock etc etc that I think it deserves a good reliable movement to complete it. I'm therefore thinking of just having done with it and putting in an ETA 2836 now. So, can anyone tell me where I can get one of those which will take the spare DSSD D-Blue dial/handset which is coming with the spare A2836? Both are from noob to match the watch.

If an ETA is available, I'll just keep the spare A2836's for the other two watches with those movements. This will enable me to enjoy the noob with complete peace of mind without worrying about something going out of wack at some point.

So, looking for new/refurb'd complete ETA 2836 with date overlay ready to just accept dial and handset to drop straight in to the noob. The noob case uses a genuine sized stem tube from what I can see and I assume the movement fixing in to the case (2 number screws) is the same on the ETA.

I have given some thought to conversion to a 3135, such as the recent post/review on the YUKI version, but assume this will require more modifications, as I'm guessing the sizing is different. Prefer to keep it simple if poss and I think the ETA 2836 has always been a good solid reliable unit from what I've read. Also keeps the watch able to immediately take back the A2836 spare movements if the ETA ever needs to be serviced and avoids me having to send the whole watch away in the post, which is always a risk. Also avoids any awkward questions about the watch being a fake.

Appreciate your advice.

[alligoat]

If you want a Swiss eta, check ebay. You'll have to get the DWO yourself and either install it or have someone else do it for you.  

[richard591]

Thanks. Is there nobody on the forum who is selling these, refurbed or new, or do we know of someone? e-bay is not my favourite place as there is a lot of crap out there and what you're told is not always what you get. It's a bloody minefield somtimes.

I would only buy something like this from a source that came recommended or known to be correct/reliable by someone I can trust.

An example of this is that I have a genuine and original Omega (one of the first, 1969) Speedmaster Moonwatches. There are a few for sale on e-bay that I can see are not correct, yet described as correct. Fortunately, I know the difference, but not with an A2836 movement.

Any names or directions to a reliable source would be much appreciated.

[woof*]

"Swisstickers" on eBay often has nos Swiss eta....I've bought a few from him and has fast service.

[alligoat]

People on the rep forums aren't going to sell Swiss etas because they're too valuable and they can always use them in their own builds.

You could buy an older watch that has a Swiss eta in it, but then you need to figure a service which will run maybe 80-90 euros in your neck of the woods.

Buying a new 2836-2 from Cousinsuk will run a lot also.

this seller in Singapore doesn't look bad to me

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-SWISS-MADE-ETA-2836-2-AUTOMATIC-MOVEMENT-NICKEL-NEW-WHITE-OR-BLACK/222063625217?_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226&_trkparms=aid%3D555014%26algo%3DPL.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3D82eef3309fd94046b4a31a3319ed4018%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26

[preacher62]

A Swiss 2824/36 will have the same problems as the Asian made. The problem is, usually that the DWO (which is the foreign culprit that is introduced into the mix) is dragging on something as it goes around. The DWO needs to be perfectly flat and smooth. Take the dial and dial ring off and afix the dial ring to the dial and then examine the back side to make sure there is nothing (however tiny it might be) protruding in the way. If the dial ring is glued to the dial, you must make sure that there is 0 glue protruding on the inside of the dial ring. There is only room for the DWO if everything is perfect.

As someone has said, if there is the slightest kink in the DWO it will go around the circle and as it does it will encounter a spot where there is less room for it and it will drag. It takes almost no pressure to stop a clean date change. This is one of the banes to existence for the Rolex rep builder.

[richard591]

Thanks for that everyone.

Have now found a nice little 66 year old watchmaker in the uk who will supply and fit an ETA 2836 in the DSSD for me if I want it. I think the investment is worthwhile on this one. He's familiar with all of them, including the clones.