A Little 5514 Abay Fettling...

[daovto]

Hey folks...

 

I was fortunate in picking up the relatively untouched Abay 5514 in the raffle a few months back. Ive worn it occasionally round the office as the timekeeping has been spot on, and I hadn't really decided what to do with it.

 

A few things niggled enough not to wear...

 

1. Spring bars looked buggered and even with the drilled lugs I couldn't seem to remove the bracelet without further tools.

 

2. The insert is looking so new and shiny...

 

 

3. When looking at the watch I could see that whatever cement had been used to fit the plexiglass you could see that around the edge - it just looked like too much cement used.

 

 

4. The bezel didn't turn...

 

So today I had a few hours and decided to strip, clean case, refit plexiglass and fettle so that bezel was fitted and worked. The following pictures tell the story but I'll add a few words along the way.

 

I hope you find it interesting / amusing to see this "carzy" 5514 stripped bare.

 

"The Midcase"

 

You know... it may not have correct crown tube height etc but it ain't a bad case... has some ok bevels on the lugs and the drilled holes are not badly positioned. I just softened edges and "dulled" it all over if that makes sense!?

 

 

The engravings... I'm no expert so no idea if they are correct (ish) but at least no spelling errors...

 

 

And the Escape Valve... Its one detail that sets this apart from the sub models of the day...

 

 

"Plexiglass" I've never fitted one like this but I was right in thinking it had been shown a little too much cement when fitted (no offence to whoever did it... It wasn't falling out that's for sure!). Cleaned and refitted... with a little less cement.

 

 

"Bezel Ring" with the plexiglass refitted I stripped the bezel ring, cleaned and adjusted wire before fitting... also dulled the shininess a little.

 

 

"Movement / Dial" at this point I'm not in mind to spend too much on a new / better dial so just recased the Swiss ETA movement that is running strong and accurate without any adjustment.

 

 

Now all that leaves is a few pictures of the 5514 Abay complete.with it's slightly bleached (dulled) insert, working bezel and better (I hope) plexiglass fitting.

 

Not a bad couple of hours watch fettling...

 

 

By the way I like the prototype clasp and bracelet on this... something a.little different.

 

 

Would you do more to this? Or just enjoy it as a little fun oddity??

 

Cheers... "Woz"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LifeTrekker]

Hey folks...
 
I was fortunate in picking up the relatively untouched Abay 5514 in the raffle a few months back. Ive worn it occasionally round the office as the timekeeping has been spot on, and I hadn't really decided what to do with it.
 
A few things niggled enough not to wear...
 
1. Spring bars looked buggered and even with the drilled lugs I couldn't seem to remove the bracelet without further tools.
 
2. The insert is looking so new and shiny...
 

 
3. When looking at the watch I could see that whatever cement had been used to fit the plexiglass you could see that around the edge - it just looked like too much cement used.
 

 
4. The bezel didn't turn...
 
So today I had a few hours and decided to strip, clean case, refit plexiglass and fettle so that bezel was fitted and worked. The following pictures tell the story but I'll add a few words along the way.
 
I hope you find it interesting / amusing to see this "carzy" 5514 stripped bare.
 
"The Midcase"
 
You know... it may not have correct crown tube height etc but it ain't a bad case... has some ok bevels on the lugs and the drilled holes are not badly positioned. I just softened edges and "dulled" it all over if that makes sense!?
 

 
The engravings... I'm no expert so no idea if they are correct (ish) but at least no spelling errors...
 

 
And the Escape Valve... Its one detail that sets this apart from the sub models of the day...
 

 
"Plexiglass" I've never fitted one like this but I was right in thinking it had been shown a little too much cement when fitted (no offence to whoever did it... It wasn't falling out that's for sure!). Cleaned and refitted... with a little less cement.
 

 
"Bezel Ring" with the plexiglass refitted I stripped the bezel ring, cleaned and adjusted wire before fitting... also dulled the shininess a little.
 

 
"Movement / Dial" at this point I'm not in mind to spend too much on a new / better dial so just recased the Swiss ETA movement that is running strong and accurate without any adjustment.
 

 
Now all that leaves is a few pictures of the 5514 Abay complete.with it's slightly bleached (dulled) insert, working bezel and better (I hope) plexiglass fitting.
 
Not a bad couple of hours watch fettling...
 

 
By the way I like the prototype clasp and bracelet on this... something a.little different.
 

 
Would you do more to this? Or just enjoy it as a little fun oddity??
 
Cheers... "Woz"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Looks pretty good to me. I'd enjoy it as-is Brother!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[synaptyx]

Looks fantastic. Much better dulling it down and lightly bleaching the insert.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nanuq]

Very nice result! You have the bones there to drape some really nice skin over.

If it was me, I'd clean up the CGs and then find a logo-less dial and engraved caseback to go "stealth" pre-COMEX. That's the one gaping hole in my collection and you're most of the way there.

[automatico]

Cool retro-replica!

 

I have a few 'Paul/Abay' watches. 

I hear everyone saying...Yawn, so what?

So...here is some of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (imho):

 

 

The Good:

The case neck is oem spec so oem spec crystals and bezel kits will work.

The HEV is oem spec but the leaf spring is weak.

The dial seat is 29.3mm so it will take a variety of large OD dials.

The case tube threads are oem spec.

Some had pretty good hollow mid link bracelets with the 'prototype' clasp.

Spring bar holes are usually located so there is room to drill them out without being too close to an edge (very important imho).

Very good overall quality except for the bezel fiasco.

 

 

The Bad:

Crystal is glued to the case and the bezel is either glued over the crystal (will not turn) or the bezel has a spring wire mounted in it that goes in the space between the top of the case and the 'short skirt' crystal...the crystal is glued on but the bezel turns.

The case back gasket groove is in the case, not the case back like oem 5512/13/14/1680.  It does not matter.  After all, the genuine 1665 gasket groove is in the case. 

The dial opening is a hair too big (26.0mm) for oem spec 5512/13/14 dials.  Works Ok with 1680 spec dials.

Will not accept a rlx 1530 base movement...case ID is too small.  Never tried hogging one out to oem spec.

'Batman' crown guards are too big.

 

 

The Ugly (according to genuine watch forums):

The fk'r wearing it.              Hee Haw! 

 

 

The Paul/Abay 1665 used the same exact case as their 55xx/1680 except for the HEV.

 

 

"...go "stealth" pre-COMEX."

 

Pre-COMEX! 

[Sogeha]

Very nicely done @MRWOZZA70 and great write up. @automatico always informative and entertaining to read your thoughts 

[daovto]

LT, Nanuq, Syn, Sogeha...Thank you gentlemen... I like the idea of going stealth too that was on my drawing board of options. I think the Comex dial is just too showy for a rep. But I'll enjoy it whilst I deliberate over the next steps...
@Automatico you've just delivered a treasure trove of information to supplement the pictures here. Also gives me as much Info to slowly walk back through if I plan to take this to next level. Amazing, and thank you...

I was surprised by the plexi fitment - is that just this rep case or gen? And the bezel... well u til today I think mine was glued stuck. Now it seems the wire is retaining the bezel... at least I will turned the bezel quite a few times.and it hasn't come away from the case. I made sure to clean up all the surfaces on the mid case and bezel ring to give it the best chance to work.

I'll have some questions about dial sourcing options and sizes... also about a sterile case back but from first read that shouldn't be an issue.

I definitely think (considering it came to me the way it did) I'll continue to invest time and materials I to this one.



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[automatico]

"I was surprised by the plexi fitment - is that just this rep case or gen?"

 

Only on cases using this type of bezel.  Genuine and oem spec cases have an inner bezel ring that presses over the crystal skirt and the rotating bezel snaps down over it.  There is a thin spacer between the inner and rotating bezels to provide tension to keep the bezel in place.  The Abay case neck is oem spec (28.2mm) so aftmkt oem spec bezel kits will work. 

Case backs made for the gasket groove in the case with 30.5mm case back threads will usually fit these cases.

 

The Abay cases were the 'Eta project cases' of their day much like the MBW/MBK cases were the 'rolex project cases' of their day. 

AfaIk most of the current batch of '5514' cases are not the same as the Abay cases.  The current bezels are probably better and most will have the back gasket in the case back.  Few will have the oem spec HEV.

 

Abay cases make excellent Eta 1680 projects with an oem spec crystal/bezel kit, oem spec case tube/crown (I used TC ct/crn), trimmed CG, and drilled lugs.  Better 1680 projects than 55xx projects only because of the 26.0mm dial window opening.  With an oversize 55xx dial they are fine. 

 

Here are some 29mm +/- dials from Raff that should work if the minute markers are not covered up too much.  Never tried one.

 

http://rafflesdials.com/watch-dial/

 

 

[daovto]

"I was surprised by the plexi fitment - is that just this rep case or gen?"  

Only on cases using this type of bezel.  Genuine and oem spec cases have an inner bezel ring that presses over the crystal skirt and the rotating bezel snaps down over it.  There is a thin spacer between the inner and rotating bezels to provide tension to keep the bezel in place.  The Abay case neck is oem spec (28.2mm) so aftmkt oem spec bezel kits will work. 

Case backs made for the gasket groove in the case with 30.5mm case back threads will usually fit these cases.

 

The Abay cases were the 'Eta project cases' of their day much like the MBW/MBK cases were the 'rolex project cases' of their day. 

AfaIk most of the current batch of '5514' cases are not the same as the Abay cases.  The current bezels are probably better and most will have the back gasket in the case back.  Few will have the oem spec HEV.

 

Abay cases make excellent Eta 1680 projects with an oem spec crystal/bezel kit, oem spec case tube/crown (I used TC ct/crn), trimmed CG, and drilled lugs.  Better 1680 projects than 55xx projects only because of the 26.0mm dial window opening.  With an oversize 55xx dial they are fine. 

 

Here are some 29mm +/- dials from Raff that should work if the minute markers are not covered up too much.  Never tried one.

 

http://rafflesdials.com/watch-dial/

 

 

 

Just updating this thread as I decided to go down the road towards a 'better' and less conspicuous pre-comex 5514 build.  

I'm not intending to go down the path of gen parts - even if they were available. Just trying to lift the overall quality of the rep case and parts to what would pass (to regular folks) on the wrist as a nice looking submariner and to more knowledgeable folks as a decent rep 5514 :-)

 

So far I have been evaluating all the dial options and on basis of cost v quality I have decided to go with a refinished feet first dial off the bay (on Singer plate?! maybe). Also going to try a WSO bezel assembly and see if it is more faithful representation. A Clark Tropic plexi is waiting to try if needed. Sterile case back also.

 

Whilst waiting for parts I decided to work on the bracelet and drilled lugs on the case... opening them up to gen spec successfully. I already had some Gen Spec bars waiting to snap in - thanks[mention=73322]sogeha[/mention] for those super nice Swiss ones

 

Oh... I need to get brave and tackle the CGs... I've been eyeballing as many 5514 photographs to appreciate the shape. Just trying to learn as much as I can before removing any steel!

 

@Autimatico thanks again your knowledge regarding this 5514 case has been invaluable

 

 

 

[Sogeha]

That’s looking good Woz. The lug holes are a great improvement, I look forward to further instalments 

 

⚓Brotherhood👍

[automatico]

"...I have decided to go with a refinished feet first dial off the bay (on Singer plate?! maybe)."

 

If the dial is 26.0mm let us know how it fits in the case. 

 

Update:

I just now measured a few more Abay cases and they all have 26.0mm dial openings...a little bit larger than MBK cases, they are made for 26.0mm dials.   All the Abay dials (date and no date) are 26.5mm wide.

Tried a rlx 1570 no date movement with standard .4mm thick rlx dial in a few Abay cases...the stem is too far to the front (same as with MBK cases).

Next, tried a rlx 1575 date movement with the dial and it was a good fit, stem lines up Ok.  Never tried a 15xx movement in Abay cases before, did not know they would work.  The 1575 date movement will need to use case clamps and screws but it will work.

So...the Abay cases may be a low buck substitute for MBK cases if you are Ok with the case back gasket being mounted in the case and do not mind a little detail work.

 

DW cases...you can get by with a 26.0mm dial in the 26.0mm dial opening when using a rlx 15xx movement because DW cases have a ledge machined inside the case that the movement mounts against...this allows the dial to be the same size as the dial opening without it falling through or getting off center but the dial will be positioned a hair below the dial seat.  The catch is only the dial screws will be holding the dial down, it will not be seated against the front of the case. 

Read about DW cases in the sticky above the rlx section and my mumblings posted here and there.

 

I doubt many of the 'SINGER' dial plates on 'refinished' replica dials are genuine.  Many have dial feet that are too big or too small in diameter, too long or too short etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[daovto]

Again... thank you@automatico I really enjoyed reading again the sticky and understand a little more the challenges working with these cases.

I am sticking with an ETA movement so there are going to be dial fitment compromises... feet etc... these are at least made less complicated by the non date spec. But the dial opening is a worry now... I will be uncasing the movement and dial again this week and will be measuring everything in anticipation.

I recall an inexpensive build a couple of years back where I encountered the same dial and opening issue and overcame it somehow... If only my memory or notes were better!


Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[daovto]

Update... so nothing really surprising to report. As you stated@Automatico the dial opening was pretty much bang on 26mm (and original dial 26.5mm) when I put the Digi calliper on them.

As dial was in flight I decided to wait and see... but unsurprisingly the dial is pretty much 25.9something :-( so it is not going to work for this project.

Just for completeness the pics if dial that arrived from the eBay seller are below. I'm not really qualified to comment on quality but it might help others to make a choice at some point.

This was a $160 5513 feet first dial from ebay seller richview8i8 (hope that matches any searches here)

It isn't the dial pictured on the listing and guess what it doesn't look anywhere near as good - to my eye at least.

Having put that one down to experience I now need some help please. If I'm to carry on with this project and try to create a decent mid budget 5514 pre-Comex with the dial opening of 26mm what are my best option s for dial!?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk