Dial size of a 116610 Vs 16610??

[Timelord]

A few years ago I bought a submariner from Paul's crazy sale which is one of my favourites - also being my first eta powered aluminium insert sub!

 

I was trying to replace the dial after the crystal seal played up as moisture damaged the dial!

 

I purchased a couple from 2 suppliers and noticed that both did not fit properly as the movement and movement ring did not flush with the stem hole.  I was dumbfounded and could not work out what was happening  After a process of elimination, I noticed that both new dials measured 29mm to 29.08mm with the digital Vernier  caliper.  I then re-measured the original dial and measured it on two takes 28.34mm and 28.4mm!  Silly me as I had given the size to both suppliers and did not reinforce this!  Replacing the old dial fitted together like a breeze and works great!  I even tried to size both dials by rotating them on a small drill will slowly sanding off the edges in trying to get them to size where I just couldn't get them centred!  I know this was a foolish attempt but I was reaching desperation point

 

I noticed that these suppliers all have stock for the ceramic submariners and maybe he dial is meant to be slightly bigger on the newer model??? Has anyone noticed this as I am now left with 2 damaged dials including my original! 

[mymanmatt]

I have a gen nipple dial and it is 27.4mm. I also have rep nipple dial and it is 28,8mm. I have a rep maxi dial and it is 28.3.  I don't think the mfg"s use the same dial supplier

[panerai153]

It looks like the dials you bought were for a newer version 116610.
Unfortunately, one of the biggest problems we face in the rep world are the inconsistencies of sizes and compatibilities across the rep spectrum. We spend enormous amounts of money, blood, sweat and tears trying to make things fit, in our attempts to mod our watches. The first thing we have to realize is that the rep manufacturers, unlike aftermarket manufacturers, don’t build for or care one bit about size compatibility with a gen watch. They build reps to look like gens, not to make them interchangeable. That’s not to say that some watches are not closely compatible, but that is not the rule. The aftermarket manufacturers on the other hand are building replacement parts for gen watches, so they have to fit. You could replace your case with a ST 3135 case and a gen or aftermarket dial would drop right in.
I can feel your frustration, I have a parts cabinet filled with stuff that looked OK, but was just a little too big or too small, but wouldn’t work.


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[horologist]

You could post on the wanted to buy section as I am sure that someone would have one somewhere sitting forgotten in the abyss where they would have replaced it with a more elaborate one!   I recall the ones I had to be of that size as this measure was one of the first numerical measures that remained tattooed in the back of my mind!!!!  

 

They would also be a penny per dozen, as the.only major problem is postage cost would far exceed the value of the item!  I will re measure what I have and if successful and you are prepared to cover the postage cost from Australia,  it is yours FREE!!!!

[horologist]

Timelord,

The best I could find that is within your range measure is this one.  These range from 28.4mm 28.5mm and 28.7mm depending on who makes them!!!

PM me if this meets your needs and I will inform you of the shipping costs!!!  

[Timelord]

Sent PM with some questions! Thanks!

[automatico]

Fwiw I have two basic types of older '16610' cases:

F520117 'Noobmariner'

D320840 'Not Noob'.

The D320840 cases show up on a lot of different models, some not as 'wokky' as others.

 

Here are some specs on the cases:

The F520117 Noob dial window diameter is 27.0mm and the dial seat OD inside the case is 28.5mm.  The reflector aka 'rehaut' is fairly shallow. 

The D320840 Not Noob dial window diameter is 27.1mm and the dial seat OD is 29.4mm.  The reflector aka 'rehaut' is 'wokky' but quite a bit taller and thicker so the dial window can be enlarged a little if needed to unmask a larger dial.  I have enlarged a few by cutting the reflector/rehaut straight up at the same angle as the case sides with no taper.  This enlarges the dial window and reduces the 'wok effect' at the same time.  The break with the reflector/rehaut angle will not be noticed as long as the exposed surface is sanded to match the existing grain on the reflector/rehaut.  With a quality dial they look very good and the wok effect basically disappears.

 

All my F520117 dials have the 9mm+/- date offset like genuine.

Some of the D320840 dials have the date offset 10mm+/- to ETA 28xx specs and some are 9mm+/- like genuine.

The F520117 Noob dials are 28.4mm, a close fit in the case.

The D320840 dial is a little bit bigger, 28.7mm or so.

 

As stated above, all my F520117 dials have 9mm+/- offset but some of the D320840 cases have 10mm+/- offset and some have 9mm+/- offset so the dials and DW can be different.  The D320840 cases will take most of the 16610 replica dials because of the larger dial seat but the 27.1mm dial window may be too close to the minute markers on larger dials with the minute marks printed closer to the outer edge.

 

I guess it all boils down to try to get the correct dial the first time around.

[horologist]

5 hours ago, automatico said:

Fwiw I have two basic types of older '16610' cases:

F520117 'Noobmariner'

D320840 'Not Noob'.

The D320840 cases show up on a lot of different models, some not as 'wokky' as others.

 

Here are some specs on the cases:

The F520117 Noob dial window diameter is 27.0mm and the dial seat OD inside the case is 28.5mm.  The reflector aka 'rehaut' is fairly shallow. 

The D320840 Not Noob dial window diameter is 27.1mm and the dial seat OD is 29.4mm.  The reflector aka 'rehaut' is 'wokky' but quite a bit taller and thicker so the dial window can be enlarged a little if needed to unmask a larger dial.  I have enlarged a few by cutting the reflector/rehaut straight up at the same angle as the case sides with no taper.  This enlarges the dial window and reduces the 'wok effect' at the same time.  The break with the reflector/rehaut angle will not be noticed as long as the exposed surface is sanded to match the existing grain on the reflector/rehaut.  With a quality dial they look very good and the wok effect basically disappears.

 

All my F520117 dials have the 9mm+/- date offset like genuine.

Some of the D320840 dials have the date offset 10mm+/- to ETA 28xx specs and some are 9mm+/- like genuine.

The F520117 Noob dials are 28.4mm, a close fit in the case.

The D320840 dial is a little bit bigger, 28.7mm or so.

 

As stated above, all my F520117 dials have 9mm+/- offset but some of the D320840 cases have 10mm+/- offset and some have 9mm+/- offset so the dials and DW can be different.  The D320840 cases will take most of the 16610 replica dials because of the larger dial seat but the 27.1mm dial window may be too close to the minute markers on larger dials with the minute marks printed closer to the outer edge.

 

I guess it all boils down to try to get the correct dial the first time around.

As Always,  great piece of information which would save a lot of people a lot of headaches and above all MONEY!!!!!

 

I learnt the hard way. I was sold a submariner replica by a guy at work back in 2010 who picked it up from an Australian web page that later turned out to be a scam.  The case was engraved 16610 with a box, an engraved rehaut with fake papers that even matched the rehaut serial number and that on the case.  I must admit that it was a nice watch and quite impressive!!!.  It was sold to him as having an eta but turned out to be DG movement.  He really wasn't into watches but bought it for the fun of it and asked if anyone was interested in it.  Along came me:-  the sucker!!!!!  Interestingly this case was the first I ever saw with a ceramic bezel and the matching bracelet that came with the ceramic bezel model.

 

One day, as expected the movement stopped as is the case with these DG movements.  I then tried to fit in an eta into it and I noticed it had nice case clamps and a movement spacer which was made up of two parts ( the first and only one I have ever seen)   This setup allowed you the option to remove one of the parts to allow the eta movement to fit into it as it is slightly different size from the original movement. 

 

As the dial feet were for a DG movement I decided to order a new dial made for an eta as I had given up on previous horrors of dial dots, epoxy dial feet with stands, double sided tape or any other band aid treatment that caused more problems.  I ordered a dial from Raffles and it did not fit in properly.  I then also ordered one from Yuki and Helesnrou and again neither of them fitted into this case.  I pulled the movement with it's dial from a replica I had purchased from Aspire and bang!!!!! It was the only one that worked.  This dial measured 28.4mm.  the 28.6 and others did not work either!!!!!.  I had spent close to over $200 in dials that served no purpose to find out.   If only I had known at the time.  Thanks again for the info!!!!!

[Timelord]

9 hours ago, automatico said:

Fwiw I have two basic types of older '16610' cases:

F520117 'Noobmariner'

D320840 'Not Noob'.

The D320840 cases show up on a lot of different models, some not as 'wokky' as others.

 

Here are some specs on the cases:

The F520117 Noob dial window diameter is 27.0mm and the dial seat OD inside the case is 28.5mm.  The reflector aka 'rehaut' is fairly shallow. 

The D320840 Not Noob dial window diameter is 27.1mm and the dial seat OD is 29.4mm.  The reflector aka 'rehaut' is 'wokky' but quite a bit taller and thicker so the dial window can be enlarged a little if needed to unmask a larger dial.  I have enlarged a few by cutting the reflector/rehaut straight up at the same angle as the case sides with no taper.  This enlarges the dial window and reduces the 'wok effect' at the same time.  The break with the reflector/rehaut angle will not be noticed as long as the exposed surface is sanded to match the existing grain on the reflector/rehaut.  With a quality dial they look very good and the wok effect basically disappears.

 

All my F520117 dials have the 9mm+/- date offset like genuine.

Some of the D320840 dials have the date offset 10mm+/- to ETA 28xx specs and some are 9mm+/- like genuine.

The F520117 Noob dials are 28.4mm, a close fit in the case.

The D320840 dial is a little bit bigger, 28.7mm or so.

 

As stated above, all my F520117 dials have 9mm+/- offset but some of the D320840 cases have 10mm+/- offset and some have 9mm+/- offset so the dials and DW can be different.  The D320840 cases will take most of the 16610 replica dials because of the larger dial seat but the 27.1mm dial window may be too close to the minute markers on larger dials with the minute marks printed closer to the outer edge.

 

I guess it all boils down to try to get the correct dial the first time around.

Great post and very informative to say the least!!!!

 

i had this problem with the SSDV2 modified by Jackjo.  All of the seadweller dials I purchased from every source did not work!!!!

The dial would sit at an angle which you could slightly see with a loupe and it was very annoying!!  I got it to work well but was disgusting to look at!! Such a great replica which I liked more than any other ones before and after it's time, BUT was aesthetically ruined by this dial!   There were no case clamp grooves to put in a case clamp and a horror of a watch to work on!!!  

 

I have a lot if respect here for so many members that do all sorts of modifications to try and fit square pegs inti round holes and vice versa.  Thinking laterally outside the square is pure science art and poetry put together!  This is what the majority of mainstream watchmakers would never dare!

 

just one question, what do you mean by wokky??

Edited October 30, 2018 by Timelord