Timelord Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) This must be the 3 rd post in a month with technical issues! Very embarrassing! Have a new 7.0mm crown which does nothing upon turning it in either direction ! Sometimes it just moves the hands a bit but then keeps slipping! i recall reading something on this on another forum years ago! A guy named "Maddox" who seemed very cluey mentioned something about how he repaired them, but I couldn't locate the link? Maybe some of our guys here being good at puttng square pegs into round holes may have some other suggestions! just dissapointed! Edited January 17, 2019 by Timelord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Sounds like a defective clutch in the crown, which is odd considering its new, did you purchase it new in blister or loose? Gen crowns which are sold loose are usually defective, and only available for money as they have been replaced with new due to a faulty internal clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timelord Posted January 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 It was advertised as unused and the crown showed no signs of wear apart from the defect! To get them is one problem but to get a defective one makes the second problem! You are right, if they are found used then there would be no logical reason to see them off a watch! Finding them in capsule packs is ultimately rare and also very expensive often even more so than the watch itself A faulty internal clutch says it ALL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 The crown clutch, tube and all will unscrew from the crown cap on 7mm crowns with the steel or gold 'bottle caps' crimped over a base metal inner frame. The last one I had apart was the type of crown made with a skirt for the O ring on the outside of the case tube so it was a later model. I use a 'ww' type chuck in an old 8mm 'watchmaker lathe' to grip the clutch tube and hold the lathe still by the drive pulley while unscrewing the cap from the tube. A pin vise will work if you can get it tight enough to keep it from slipping and scratching the outside of the tube. Once it is apart the trouble will be easy to spot...maybe a weak spring, maybe a bad center tube where the stem screws in etc. Check the spring before taking it apart...does it have enough tension to push the setting works from time set position to winding position before it contacts the case tube threads (assuming the stem is cut to the correct length)? Does it always snap back into the extended position when 'push in' pressure is released? To check the clutch, remove the crown and stem from the watch and hold the stem in soft jaw pliers or a pin vise and see if the crown slips internally while turning the crown both ways with a little bit of 'pull apart' tension applied to the stem and crown. It should not slip when 'pulled apart' and turn freely when compressed. Use Loctite when putting it back together, taking care not to get any inside the clutch. Also use a tiny bit of grease on the internal clutch parts...KT22 etc. I have not tried to remove a tube and clutch assembly from a later 'mono block' type 7mm crown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Here's a very good writeup by our own Freddy333https://rwg.cc/topic/92799-a-brevet-rebuild/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timelord Posted January 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 hours ago, automatico said: The crown clutch, tube and all will unscrew from the crown cap on 7mm crowns with the steel or gold 'bottle caps' crimped over a base metal inner frame. The last one I had apart was the type of crown made with a skirt for the O ring on the outside of the case tube so it was a later model. I use a 'ww' type chuck in an old 8mm 'watchmaker lathe' to grip the clutch tube and hold the lathe still by the drive pulley while unscrewing the cap from the tube. A pin vise will work if you can get it tight enough to keep it from slipping and scratching the outside of the tube. Once it is apart the trouble will be easy to spot...maybe a weak spring, maybe a bad center tube where the stem screws in etc. Check the spring before taking it apart...does it have enough tension to push the setting works from time set position to winding position before it contacts the case tube threads (assuming the stem is cut to the correct length)? Does it always snap back into the extended position when 'push in' pressure is released? To check the clutch, remove the crown and stem from the watch and hold the stem in soft jaw pliers or a pin vise and see if the crown slips internally while turning the crown both ways with a little bit of 'pull apart' tension applied to the stem and crown. It should not slip when 'pulled apart' and turn freely when compressed. Use Loctite when putting it back together, taking care not to get any inside the clutch. Also use a tiny bit of grease on the internal clutch parts...KT22 etc. I have not tried to remove a tube and clutch assembly from a later 'mono block' type 7mm crown. 18 hours ago, SSTEEL said: Sounds like a defective clutch in the crown, which is odd considering its new, did you purchase it new in blister or loose? Gen crowns which are sold loose are usually defective, and only available for money as they have been replaced with new due to a faulty internal clutch. 8 hours ago, Nanuq said: Here's a very good writeup by our own Freddy333 https://rwg.cc/topic/92799-a-brevet-rebuild/ Gentlemen, without overlooking the genius skills of others.here, what would the forum be without you guys?? If every area of the world was like this forum, the world would be an astronomically better place!! No poverty, no wars and perhaps even less diseases just to mention a few!! Many thanks ! It gives me somewhere to turn! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horologist Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 Very interesting and useful post!!!!! I have always abstained from 2nd hand genuine crowns because of this very issue and most watchmakers that I know here claim that if faulty the labour costs far exceed the replacement. Maybe in the days when these crowns were readily available and price feasible!!!! This begs the question if the same works on the crowns from the replica models such as those from Silix etc or the generic replacement crowns ? Out of curiosity has anyone ever tried it, especially if one has the tools handy and when you have nothing else to replace it with? I have about half a dozen of the rep ones around my place that have this exact problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 "This begs the question if the same works on the crowns from the replica models such as those from Silix etc or the generic replacement crowns? Out of curiosity has anyone ever tried it, especially if one has the tools handy and when you have nothing else to replace it with?" I have taken a few apart and swapped parts around to make them work but sometimes things go wrong...center tube breaks off in the crown etc. The big problem is there are so many variations of replica crowns that a lot of the parts will not match. The two types I have had the best luck with are the old brass body crowns with steel 'bottle caps' and the crowns that came on the noobmariners. Both must have matching case tubes because the brass/steel capped models have a case tube made like a regular 6mm dress crown and the noob crowns are not oem spec. Also had a few 6mm all steel replica crowns (not a cap) that held up real good and they use oem spec regular 6mm case tubes...I put one on my JMB '1016' and it has caused no trouble. Have a few crowns from TC and about half of them developed weak springs before too long but I never tried to fix one because they still worked. The overall quality is high other than the springs and they work with oem spec case tubes. The problem is TC went South. Never tried a 7mm crown from 'Riff-Raff' but they should be Ok and $17 for a crown and tube is a very good price imho. This is probably what I would go with if I needed a few. They also have 6mm crowns with the swiss + mark on them for $20...a bargain compared to $100 for a worn out genuine example. Every genuine + type crown I have had was worn out before I got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horologist Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, automatico said: "This begs the question if the same works on the crowns from the replica models such as those from Silix etc or the generic replacement crowns? Out of curiosity has anyone ever tried it, especially if one has the tools handy and when you have nothing else to replace it with?" I have taken a few apart and swapped parts around to make them work but sometimes things go wrong...center tube breaks off in the crown etc. The big problem is there are so many variations of replica crowns that a lot of the parts will not match. The two types I have had the best luck with are the old brass body crowns with steel 'bottle caps' and the crowns that came on the noobmariners. Both must have matching case tubes because the brass/steel capped models have a case tube made like a regular 6mm dress crown and the noob crowns are not oem spec. Also had a few 6mm all steel replica crowns (not a cap) that held up real good and they use oem spec regular 6mm case tubes...I put one on my JMB '1016' and it has caused no trouble. Have a few crowns from TC and about half of them developed weak springs before too long but I never tried to fix one because they still worked. The overall quality is high other than the springs and they work with oem spec case tubes. The problem is TC went South. Never tried a 7mm crown from 'Riff-Raff' but they should be Ok and $17 for a crown and tube is a very good price imho. This is probably what I would go with if I needed a few. They also have 6mm crowns with the swiss + mark on them for $20...a bargain compared to $100 for a worn out genuine example. Every genuine + type crown I have had was worn out before I got it. Great information as always! Very useful for many of us here!!! Many Thanks !! 11 hours ago, automatico said: Have a few crowns from TC and about half of them developed weak springs before too long but I never tried to fix one because they still worked. The overall quality is high other than the springs and they work with oem spec case tubes. The problem is TC went South. Also had the same experience! Maybe TC went East! 11 hours ago, automatico said: Never tried a 7mm crown from 'Riff-Raff' but they should be Ok and $17 for a crown and tube is a very good price imho. This is probably what I would go with if I needed a few. They also have 6mm crowns with the swiss + mark on them for $20...a bargain compared to $100 for a worn out genuine example. Every genuine + type crown I have had was worn out before I got it. Very true!! Which is probably what has just happened to me! Pay good money for a genuine crown which according to sellers Gospel was meant to be new without tags, but turned out to be a dud! So much for a genuine non functioning item! BTW who is Riff-Raff? I can imagine quite a few of them from my neighbourhood , but I think you are not talking about those riff raffs!! Edited January 19, 2019 by horologist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 BTW who is Riff-Raff? R-R website info sent in a message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 12 hours ago, automatico said: BTW who is Riff-Raff? R-R website info sent in a message. Raffletimes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timelord Posted January 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 9 hours ago, SSTEEL said: Raffletimes? I believe so! But Riff-raff is no riff-raff!! He is a great guy and I have dealt with him more than once! His merchandise is quite affordable and has quite a range of stock! Pity he does not have the same for the older submariner style cases nor the same for omega especially the crown& tubes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 "But Riff-raff is no riff-raff!!" You are right about that but I did not want to blast their name out. There is Raffles Time then there is Raffles ..... dotcom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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