Falco Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 I don't see the problem, underground dealers and forums will always find a way to get around. Paypal can be replaced by Mooneybookers, and forums can change to other offshore servers When there's a will there's a way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyndonville Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 i suspect someone is out to make trouble for all dealers here... but i got no idea who and have no names in my mind... but recent event shows something... we are being WATCH.. I would strongly suggest TimeZone. Massey isn't exactly a friendly guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJGladeRaider Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Frankly, although Uncle Rollie has enormous resources, it still comes down to effective, efficient use. Even if they could shut the boards down, they'd pop right back up on offshore servers somewhere, and even if they could shut down all the dealers we know from taking PayPal, the net effect on the rep trade industry would be neglible. Until they get the big fish under control, I don't expect to see them targeting the minnows. I would think it more likely that successful dealers get sniped by jealous competitors, and/or self-motivated individuals who dislike the rep industry so they stir up trouble as time permits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 People on the gen boards may well be getting [censored] off with our constant posting of replicas on their forums (you know who you are, spacktards) but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanyboy Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 sad but truth.. they are shutting down a convenient method of payment.. but i guess we all have to adjust to payment methods like WU, MB, Moneygram or even credit card processing.. which are not easily trackable.. although they may be slightly more expensive but you wouldn't risk freezing all your money in PP!!! in reality, many legit biz are suffering from PP as well.. just look at http://www.paypalsucks.com/ i am considering on other payment methods.. other than PP.. any suggestion? We on this board have been through all this before. It's starting to get very repetetive and tedious. Everybody has to understand that PayPal is subject to all sorts of US and international banking and money transfer regulations. It can get into as much trouble moving money for replica watches as it can for al Queda. It's all the same to the regulatory authorities--illegal activity. WHY DON'T PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT? And PayPal tracks what's going on so it can see that there's now a lot of money moving in the illegal watch business. Not to mention that it has the Swiss and American governments riding its ass on all this too. This has been compounded by the increase in amatuer rep buyers who discover the good dealers by using RWG and other rep watch forums. We all know the type--they complain that their watch hasn't arrived after four days, or that it's got something wrong with it, etc.--and they lodge a PayPal complaint against the dealer giving rise to even more uneeded PayPal scrutiny. Get used to the idea that we are going to have to go back to the old ways. Let's face it--Western Union isn't that bad if you're dealing with a trusted dealer. I have bought reps from Eddie, Paul, River, Sash, Andrew and Silix and have been happy every time. I will still buy from them even if I'm stuck with Western Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005SUBMARINER Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 it sounds to me that newer members or members who order rep watches & expect the rep watches to be gen quality wich is ridiculus ! .. a rep is a rep & thats all it is ! so i think is some newbie with a hard on for our dealers trying to make some trouble .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luisik Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 i am considering on other payment methods.. other than PP.. any suggestion? Moneybookers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 It was only a matter of time on Paypal. Just factor in the additional cost of moneybookers,WU or whatever works for you when buying a rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finepics Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Well here's a good example of how the majors can apply pressure to something. allofmp3.com (a particular favourite of mine) have been allowing users to download music legally as far as Russian Law goes. The only problem is that they were not paying the royalties to the RIAA (technically not necessary under Russian law) so they have put pressure on Visa and Mastercard to stop accepting payments for illicit goods/services so the only way to pay allofmp3 is if you have a Japanese JCB credit card as their laws are different. This also applies to reps. No bank or financial institution is allowed under international law to do anything that promotes or endorses illegal activity of any kind. It's not PP's fault as such - it's the LAW!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torques Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 They are still up and running, but hardly as usual. A main payment method has been cut. I am hoping that this is just Paypal taking action to protect their legal standing, and not the industry closing in on rep collectors as a whole! No, they just take your credit card info, then call you back and inform you that Rolex has shut down their credit card charge access. They they ship cod so that after you discover that none of the claims about the specific watch are true, it is too late, the money order is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmac23 Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 what about that new google payment method?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stang Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 i am considering on other payment methods.. other than PP.. any suggestion? I had very good luck using Western Union to process my last purchase. Unfortunately, WU seems to have gotten a lot more expensive since the first (only) time I used it. I was charged only $14 for a $250 "money-in-minutes" transaction the first time I used WU. However, I recently checked the fee for a $50 payment and the estimated cost appeared as $20. The $250 amount (placed less than one month before) is now appearing as a $34 fee!! I'm not sure why the cost has gone up so much(?). For a $250(+) order, $34 isn't too much. A $20 fee for a $50 transaction is outrageous. Besides the fee, I was very happy with the Western Union payment methods. I used my VISA debit card and the online (web/internet) service. What I like about Western Union is... 1) Very quick and easy to process (unlike Paypal's endless setup screens). 2) I didn't have to provide a lot of personal information for their files. 3) WU provides extensive online details regarding the status of the order. Thus, easy to track exactly what is happening. 4) WU is a well established, reliable, secure and reputable company which has been around for many years. I trust them as much as I would trust any online transaction. 5) I could use my VISA card for payment (and not worry *too* much about the info being stolen/abused). What I don't like about WU are the (currently) high fees they charge for this service. Not sure why they went up so much. For $200 or more, it's reasonable. For less than that amount it seems excessive IM(LTH)O. I hope this information is helpful. BTW, I ordered from Joshua and was very pleased with his service (replied to my emails on the same day I sent them and I received my watch six days after the WU payment was submitted). with regards, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdavis Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I have used Western Union several times and noticed a wide variation in prices. I asked my agent to recheck the price on my most resent order and was informed that it depends on the country the money is sent to. My previous payment were sent to China for about $14 US while my most recent amount was over $30 US for essentially the same amount sent to Singapore. I suppose that "if you want to play then you have to pay" applies to WU. I agree with those that suggest that our dealers are likely being "sniped" by disgruntled newbies who have become confrontational in addressing their dealers resulting in a defensive posture and the resulting retaliation. I have noticed several posts that appear to be without foundation degrading certain respected dealers. It is regrettable that there are those among us that would try to bring down these dealers and our forums. We seem to be living in some strange and perilous times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stang Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 jdavis, Nice avatar! Yeah, WU was $14 to China the 1st time, but $34 to China just 3 weeks later! Not sure what the deal is with WU... Same place, same amount, big change in fee(?) Maybe they spin a big casino wheel every week to decide what the amount should be. Strange. Still, for a large money transfer, I would still go w/ WU. Not sure what Moneybookers or Moneygram is like. Anyone have experience w/ MB or MG transactions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashwatch Posted March 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 is easy and very simple to use.. you dont need a masters to register on it.. almost as easy if not easier than ppsucks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I would venture to guess this has something to do with the US recently putting pressure on China to stop counterfeiting. It is very similiar to when paypal stopped doing business with online casinos. The US puts pressure on banking institutions to stop processing payments from illeagal activities and a flunkie task force is assigned to go out and make trouble for everyone. My guess is it is very hard if not impossible to get to any of the manufacturers or large scale dealers. I am assuming the major exporters don't use paypal, so the only way to make any headway and say they did something positive in the war on counterfeiting (notice how everything in the US is a war on something?) is to put a wrench in the retail dealer's business. I can't see any individual taking the time, effort and money to buy a watch and get a dealer shut down. It has to be GAF and government related. I say [censored] em. I prefer the old way of doing business when everything was more hush hush. You email the dealer with a reference of where you got his email, negotiate a price and run to WU with a handful of cash. This hobby shouldn't be main stream. it is still illeagal. The increasing poplularity of these boards has made it so that anyone can join and cause us trouble. I think the dealers have also gotten a little too relaxed and don't realize how seriously the US takes intellectual property rights. Time to tighten up and go back to the alley behind the bar. No more dealing in front of the police station................. F'n warmongers. You're right though. And I agree it would be better without the "replica" in the name... just Watch Group would be better, or MWG - modder's watch group .. anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 sad but truth.. they are shutting down a convenient method of payment.. but i guess we all have to adjust to payment methods like WU, MB, Moneygram or even credit card processing.. which are not easily trackable.. although they may be slightly more expensive but you wouldn't risk freezing all your money in PP!!! in reality, many legit biz are suffering from PP as well.. just look at http://www.paypalsucks.com/ i am considering on other payment methods.. other than PP.. any suggestion? Try nochex if it's available there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I had very good luck using Western Union to process my last purchase. Unfortunately, WU seems to have gotten a lot more expensive since the first (only) time I used it. I was charged only $14 for a $250 "money-in-minutes" transaction the first time I used WU. However, I recently checked the fee for a $50 payment and the estimated cost appeared as $20. The $250 amount (placed less than one month before) is now appearing as a $34 fee!! I'm not sure why the cost has gone up so much(?). For a $250(+) order, $34 isn't too much. A $20 fee for a $50 transaction is outrageous. Besides the fee, I was very happy with the Western Union payment methods. I used my VISA debit card and the online (web/internet) service. What I like about Western Union is... 1) Very quick and easy to process (unlike Paypal's endless setup screens). 2) I didn't have to provide a lot of personal information for their files. 3) WU provides extensive online details regarding the status of the order. Thus, easy to track exactly what is happening. 4) WU is a well established, reliable, secure and reputable company which has been around for many years. I trust them as much as I would trust any online transaction. 5) I could use my VISA card for payment (and not worry *too* much about the info being stolen/abused). What I don't like about WU are the (currently) high fees they charge for this service. Not sure why they went up so much. For $200 or more, it's reasonable. For less than that amount it seems excessive IM(LTH)O. I hope this information is helpful. BTW, I ordered from Joshua and was very pleased with his service (replied to my emails on the same day I sent them and I received my watch six days after the WU payment was submitted). with regards, Jeff Apart from the high-fees, when paying via their website, they can call you back. I had 2 sepaate calls for 2 separate transactions last year, and one was rejected (my only ever attempt at a small purchase from Paul). I had to go to a WU desk and get it sent using straight cash, which was very annoying as all the desks were closed when I finished work (at the time I was working from 9am til 9-11pm everyday). The other problem I found was sending over 500-600GBP in one go would incur even more checks, such as taking your passport, so it had to be split into 2 payments, with more charges Things are not good! To make WU seem more cost effective you need a larger order, in which case I think next time I will go for a used genuine rather than spend the $1800 or so on lots of reps as I did in one go early last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 I have used Western Union several times and noticed a wide variation in prices. I asked my agent to recheck the price on my most resent order and was informed that it depends on the country the money is sent to. My previous payment were sent to China for about $14 US while my most recent amount was over $30 US for essentially the same amount sent to Singapore. I suppose that "if you want to play then you have to pay" applies to WU. I agree with those that suggest that our dealers are likely being "sniped" by disgruntled newbies who have become confrontational in addressing their dealers resulting in a defensive posture and the resulting retaliation. I have noticed several posts that appear to be without foundation degrading certain respected dealers. It is regrettable that there are those among us that would try to bring down these dealers and our forums. We seem to be living in some strange and perilous times. Perhaps there could be a moratorium on selling to newbies for a period of time but I doubt it could ever happen. Most dealers will take the money and the risk I think. Those few that are doing this as a hobby perhaps should stick to buyers with a good track record - or at least give them priority on limited items? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrickvilleboy Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 damn this is rediculous. WTF is going on? It seems that all of a sudden every dealer is being reported! I think dealers should have a private pp addy and only give it out to their repeat customers or something. This is getting out of hand. funny you should mention that.... Considering you were the one that filed a complaint with Joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jens Posted March 7, 2007 Report Share Posted March 7, 2007 I would venture to guess this has something to do with the US recently putting pressure on China to stop counterfeiting. It is very similiar to when paypal stopped doing business with online casinos. The US puts pressure on banking institutions to stop processing payments from illeagal activities and a flunkie task force is assigned to go out and make trouble for everyone. My guess is it is very hard if not impossible to get to any of the manufacturers or large scale dealers. I am assuming the major exporters don't use paypal, so the only way to make any headway and say they did something positive in the war on counterfeiting (notice how everything in the US is a war on something?) is to put a wrench in the retail dealer's business. I can't see any individual taking the time, effort and money to buy a watch and get a dealer shut down. It has to be GAF and government related. I say [censored] em. I prefer the old way of doing business when everything was more hush hush. You email the dealer with a reference of where you got his email, negotiate a price and run to WU with a handful of cash. This hobby shouldn't be main stream. it is still illeagal. The increasing poplularity of these boards has made it so that anyone can join and cause us trouble. I think the dealers have also gotten a little too relaxed and don't realize how seriously the US takes intellectual property rights. Time to tighten up and go back to the alley behind the bar. No more dealing in front of the police station................. I think you are right in everything you say. The scene is set for the war against counterfeiting, now it starts, slowly but steady. For the time beeing other products than watches might have higher priority, but with Rolex high on the list of copied brands that might not last long. Maybe these guys have Rolex on their customer list ? :http://www.carratu.com/intellectual_proper...nterfeiting.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 F'n warmongers. You're right though. And I agree it would be better without the "replica" in the name... just Watch Group would be better, or MWG - modder's watch group .. anything else. Modders Watch Group would be a cool idea. Or this one would be even better since it seems to be a touchstone in the biz... Maria's Best Watch!!! MBW. Some things users can do as well is stop using full names. R*lex instead of you know what. P*ypal, whatever. Few realize how through Google is at indexing words on the Web. /Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivia Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 I think you are right in everything you say. The scene is set for the war against counterfeiting, now it starts, slowly but steady. For the time beeing other products than watches might have higher priority, but with Rolex high on the list of copied brands that might not last long. Maybe these guys have Rolex on their customer list ? :http://www.carratu.com/intellectual_proper...nterfeiting.htm Yep and part of the program is "Undertaking test purchases often forms part of wider investigations into the infringement of clients Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yepme Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 sad but truth.. they are shutting down a convenient method of payment.. but i guess we all have to adjust to payment methods like WU, MB, Moneygram or even credit card processing.. which are not easily trackable.. although they may be slightly more expensive but you wouldn't risk freezing all your money in PP!!! in reality, many legit biz are suffering from PP as well.. just look at http://www.paypalsucks.com/ i am considering on other payment methods.. other than PP.. any suggestion? sash, GEARPAY is an alternative with a similar fee structure to paypal. I'm not a merchant, but I frequent other boards that merchants prefer gearpay to paypal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted March 8, 2007 Report Share Posted March 8, 2007 sash, GEARPAY is an alternative with a similar fee structure to paypal. I'm not a merchant, but I frequent other boards that merchants prefer gearpay to paypal. PRO GUN PRO SPORTSMAN PRO AMERICAN oh my! Can't we find something -- ANYTHING -- a little less, how should I say this? /Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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