V Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Well a couple of days ago a guy came to my house and knocked the door.. When I opened he asked me if he can tell me some things about god and his greatnes etc etc.. I said No and closed the door... I was a bit unprepared but today I had my glorious chance.. While I was browsing to my lovely RWG and changing straps to my Pams.. the door knocked again. THis time I was prepared.. I opened and two elderly ladies asked me the following question: Does anyone in this 'house' believe in God? Anyways.. we should not discuss the greater evil that ruins this world but in a city called 'Gun City UK' with half the population carrying guns and murders very often.. well we are not CItade de Deus (a small ghetto in Rio) but it is quite hard in our area.. they asked me if I believe in God... My answer was the last two lines of the following paragraph... A quote from a magnificent movie adaptation to E.A. Poes Masque of the Red Death (staring Vincent Price) - Francesca: But you need no doors to find God. If you believe... - Prospero: Believe? If you believe you are gullible. Can you look around this world and believe in the goodness of a god who rules it? Famine, Pestilence, War, Disease and Death! They rule this world. - Francesca: There is also love and life and hope. - Prospero: Very little hope I assure you. No. If a god of love and life ever did exist... he is long since dead. Someone... something, rules in his place. The bolded quote was what I answered them.. I guess they will not visit again my house for a long period of time... or maybe ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_uk Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 See my signature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addingwatch Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Ye of little faith. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyndonville Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Interesting question, but, there's no clear definitive answer to that. Do you have an opinion on whether or not there's a god, or, gods? Well, that's your opinion and someone else may, or, may not, agree with you. In the end, and I mean the REAL end [dead], we, as individuals, will finally have the answer to that question. To date no one has been able to come back from the dead to give us an answer. The actual answer to this is whatever makes you comfortable is okay. I do know one fact about religion, and it's a widely known stat: More people have died in the name of religion and God than in any war man has ever engaged in and fought. What's that tell you about religion and God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I used to be agnostic, but I eventually became atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z80 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I used to believe in God until I finally had the opportunity to actually think about it and reason through it. IF God or gods exist I do not believe they are anything like the ones depicted in Christianity or Islam or whatever. The universe is too big and this planet is far to small and insignificant. If all that existed in the Universe was our system, then I might believe, but when you are talking about billions of GALAXIES, each with hundreds of billions of stars.. well, anyone who believes this Universe is just here for the sake of our pathetic, insignificant existence is infinitely naive and more than a bit arrogant. If there is a design to this Universe, then I believe we are just an aftereffect of the mechanics that were set in motion thirteen trillion years ago. I have not seen ANY proof that one religion has got it right. Religion is a method of control. ALL religions have documented "miracles", so if they all have miracles, none of them count as true Divine Miracles since logically only the true God should be able to perform them. There will be those that say they believe and don't question. That is fine, but I would rather be awake to the world rather than follow something that I can't believe in my head, belief in your heart is an emotional, vulnerable and easily manipulated thing.. and it's the emotion that traps people. Some say ignorance is bliss... Not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I used to believe in God until I finally had the opportunity to actually think about it and reason through it. Here's the one that got me. I realised one day that if there were a god, he wouldn't only allow you to believe in the the one true religion based purely on the location of the birth of your parents. So, how come the Australian Aborigines didn't have a concept of Jehova until they got presented with it along with alcohol and syphilis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted February 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Well do not be fouled by the topic and my reply.. I do believe in God.. my personal God.. which I sometimes worship through the Orthodox Christian traditions but in my own way The same movie has another great discussion towards the end... Man in red: Man creates his own God, his own devil, his own heaven and his own hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I used to be agnostic but recently converted to fundementalist athiesm I highly recomend "the god delusion" by richard dawkins if you want to really make a good look at the god or no god issue - this is a thorough analysis http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard...TF8&s=books Also - Check out this sunday, James Cameron found Jesus's tomb on the discovery channel whether god exists or not, is not an opinion in the same way that whether or not there are little green men that live on jupiter. Its a fact or it isn't. As the book points out this is one of the only subjects in the world that gets a presumption of truth based on no evidence whatsoever and it is the athiest, to prove the negative that he/she does not exist. I hope no one takes offense to this - but, if you do, feel comfort in the fact that i will get my come uppings when its all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section8 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I'm here to find out the name of the movie, i never realized there was a film adaptation of The Masque of the Red Death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted February 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I'm here to find out the name of the movie, i never realized there was a film adaptation of The Masque of the Red Death It's called 'THE MASQUE OF THE RED DEATH' by Roger Corman.. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058333/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058333/quotes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I'm here to find out the name of the movie, i never realized there was a film adaptation of The Masque of the Red Death http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058333/ edit: Damnit, too slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section8 Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 It's called 'THE MASQUE OF THE RED DEATH' by Roger Corman.. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058333/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058333/quotes LOL, i feel stupid now. Didn't think of searching on teh actual name. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivia Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 "The bolded quote was what I answered them.. I guess they will not visit again my house for a long period of time... or maybe ever again." All the more reason to send "hoards of believers" to your door....for they now have a real mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Here's the one that got me. I realised one day that if there were a god, he wouldn't only allow you to believe in the the one true religion based purely on the location of the birth of your parents. So, how come the Australian Aborigines didn't have a concept of Jehova until they got presented with it along with alcohol and syphilis? I think you can believe in God or a supreme being without necessarily following or believing in a formalized religon. To me, belief and God and adherence to religon are two seperate considerations. God either exists or doesn't. Religon is a philosophy or a dogma. To steal the phrasing you used in the etiquette thread, to me, religon is an artifical construct created by man.. but not so God to the believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I think you can believe in God or a supreme being without necessarily following or believing in a formalized religon. That's basically Agnosticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 That's basically Agnosticism. I have always assumed that Agnosticism is akin to uncertainty.. i.e. one cannot be sure that God exists or does not exist.. whereas Aethisitic which implies a hard belief that God does not exist. taking religon out of the equation, you are agnostic on an issue if you cannot take a position because you are nuetral, or lack the understanding necessary to render a judgment. Here is the wilkepedia text: Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism. What I am suggesting is that you can believe in God, personally, without necessarily believing in established mainstream religous dogma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 What I am suggesting is that you can believe in God, personally, without necessarily believing in established mainstream religous dogma God with a capital G? As in Christian God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 God with a capital G? As in Christian God? not really sure i understand the question, oh god of sea-elephants, but i will answer tentatively, (and haltingly) yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythingape Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I am an atheist, still I use church as a tradition. I will marry in a church, my daughter is christened and taught christian children's songs. You can call it hypocritical, but there are some wholesome values in religion. I would love for some 'supreme' being to be able to intervene.. Would that make me an atheistic agnostic? I think Johan Cruyff said it well: "Ik geloof niet. In Spanje slaan alle 22 spelers een kruisje voordat ze het veld opkomen, als het werkt, zal het dus altijd een gelijkspel worden." (I'm not religious. In Spain all 22 players make the sign of the cross before they enter the pitch. If it worked, it would always be a draw.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 I have always assumed that Agnosticism is akin to uncertainty.. i.e. one cannot be sure that God exists or does not exist.. whereas Aethisitic which implies a hard belief that God does not exist. taking religon out of the equation, you are agnostic on an issue if you cannot take a position because you are nuetral, or lack the understanding necessary to render a judgment. Here is the wilkepedia text: Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism. What I am suggesting is that you can believe in God, personally, without necessarily believing in established mainstream religous dogma crap i had a whole long naswer to this that dind't post - damn technical issues. Your right on agnosticism were talking about the difference between Religion and Spirituality. I'm still though a rabid athiest - just doesn't make sense to me that humans on earth, the equivilent to some bacteria on a whale in comparison to the billion year old universe. - our mear 80 years of existance here, can't really be the constant attention of some superior being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 I have read most of the classic/historical works on both sides; I still believe and pitty those that do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpala96 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Well, I guess one thing is for sure.........We will ALL find out the truth when we die. I always love this debate. The great thing is...someones gonna be wrong and someones gonna be right. One of my friends sent me a video of the rapture taking place. Powerful video and I have to say it left me with an uneasy feeling. So yeah, anything that deals with the heart does leave you exposed.....short term. The long term is what I'm concerned about. To each his own.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 In the simplest terms: I believe there is a God. If I am right, I win and the other side is screwed. If they are right, we all are screwed and it doesn't matter. Easy bet, no? There is a fancy name for this one, but I forgot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbj69 Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 i believe joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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