Pix Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Dutch-French-German, hummmm first chocolate, then the world! Bell Labs is in there somewhere. But according to the U.S. Courts none of them did anything useful; and so it is because America says it's so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam_tgg Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Soory Pix, but what is that? it is "not lethal". It is a bit strange. We are not talking abouit if the penalty for buying reps is death or just a fine. Yes, purchasing reps is not legal. It is nice, and I like it. But we can not say that is not stealling. I download music, films and software. Just because it is easy, and I started to download music back in the midd-90s, with out napster and with finding the codecs in warez webs. But I know that I buy less music, I buy no DVD, and I buy less watches. Ahhh that is the question: I did not buyed gens because they were to expensive for me. But I still do not buy gens, because, the ones I can pay, I find them most here, with our dealers. It is the same with music: at the school, I must thing a lot to buy an album. Know I have the money to buy some cds, but I look in emule. But I really know what I am doing. I do not like the RIA (o what ever is in USA) (in spain SGAE), and I do not like this people. But I know that I am not paying. More, when I download a film or music, I pay just for the conexion (at least is in my country, and they pay taxes here). But when I buy a rep, I pay for guys in Asia, that produce in Asia, and sells most from Asia, and do not pay a dime, in EU (were all the watches are branded), and I do not think (I am sure) they pay taxes for the reps bussiness in Asia (china or whatever). I do it. I buy reps, but I do not fool myself or someone saying "the thing is that the gens are too expensive, they are overprice". If you think it, buy a casio for 10 dolars. It is not overprice, and for looking the time, it is the same as a rolex or a panerai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Soory Pix, but what is that? it is "not lethal". It is a bit strange. We are not talking abouit if the penalty for buying reps is death or just a fine. Hi, my mistake. Don't forget, English is not my native language. I meant, buying a rep never killed anyone. It is not fatal (I should stop watching movies without subtitles ! ) So I do not feel guilty buying some. Whereas buying other counterfeit goods (like medicine or car parts) will kill people. In that case I am completely against such business. Both are illegal, but I consider them very differently. Does it make more sense ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 well, if we are promoting the brands, we are doing so against the will of the manufacturers. Clearly, they see little value in our promotional marketing efforts. Given that the brands themselves expend a lot of effort in curtailing these activities, it is hard to see how we are acting in their best interests... and if we are not acting in their best interests, it is hard to see position this in a postive light. Perfect. That's what I was trying to say but obviously was too stupid to express as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 but obviously was too stupid to express as well. Clearly, that is NOT true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubus Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) Even this one ? i am affraid Id have to say "even yes" once again but not me, not my friends, not anyone I know But somebody for sure @ kanerich : I just agree some parts with you now, got your point wrong, you were right Ahhh that is the question: I did not buyed gens because they were to expensive for me. But I still do not buy gens, because, the ones I can pay, I find them most here, with our dealers. and thats the major difference between you and me, if I had a money to replace a replica of watch I love so much with a gen of it, I would without even a moment of hasitating. I also think that ppl get replicas or to fool others or by getting them for making their dreams or hobbies come true Edited March 13, 2007 by pubus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 well, if we are promoting the brands, we are doing so against the will of the manufacturers. Clearly, they see little value in our promotional marketing efforts. Given that the brands themselves expend a lot of effort in curtailing these activities, it is hard to see how we are acting in their best interests... and if we are not acting in their best interests, it is hard to see position this in a postive light. While true, that a number of members became interested in gens by first purchasing rep products, it is quite clear where the luxury brands stand on this issue based on the pressure they exert on Governmental agencies, customs, and e-commerce enablers like paypal. To them this is counterfiet trade and it cuts right to the heart of their most important asset... their brand. Brand protection is everything to these guys. Brand recognition and positioning is the what allows R*lex to charge in excess of $5K for a new sub and what keeps the vintage market hopping . They do not care about the extra couple of watches they might sell from people who become interested via the rep route. They are much more concerned with protecting exclusivity and luxury perception of the brand itself. Sorry but that is a fact. I think companies like Rolex see non threatening parts of the replica business as a flattering annoyance. Some of the most blatant open market selling of cheap Rolex replicas occurs in NYC around the corner from Rolex USA corporate headquarters. Were talking $30 quartz crap Rollies though. Intellectual property is IP no matter how you try to rationalize the rip off. If counterfeits really helped "spread the word", the corporate world wouldn't be doing what it is doing to limit the comerce. I doubt very much if the best business minds in these companies are overlooking the selfless favor we are doing them by promoting their brands uncompensated. Somewhere deep in the analytical spreadsheets, there's probably a bottom line statistical fact like for every 1000 counterfeit Submariners sold, they loose one genuine sale so the cost out of pocket to Rolex is $5 per replica sale. That kind of hard core bottom line is more than likely what is behind genuine producers continuing to chase down counterfeiters. If the numbers told them every 1000 fake Subs sold gets them 1 genuine sale they wouldn't say a damn thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dak244 Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Somewhere deep in the analytical spreadsheets, there's probably a bottom line statistical fact like for every 1000 counterfeit Submariners sold, they loose one genuine sale so the cost out of pocket to Rolex is $5 per replica sale. That kind of hard core bottom line is more than likely what is behind genuine producers continuing to chase down counterfeiters. If the numbers told them every 1000 fake Subs sold gets them 1 genuine sale they wouldn't say a damn thing. See, I am not sure which way I would actually go on this though. I have seen a lot of people get into watches, through replicas, and eventually go on to buy a gen, where as, *In my experience*, those who can afford the gen's enjoy the feeling of having a gen on their wrist and do not turn to reps, IMO. That being said, I have also had a number of people come up to me and be like "I like that watch, what is that? Pan-er-what?".. I am sure people learn of a brand through replica watches as well. So, IMO, if I had to do the math on it, I would probably say that there are a decent amount of both. Of course this doesn't make any of this "right" per se.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 @ kanerich : I just agree some parts with you now, got your point wrong, you were right In any case, we should always keep in mind that 99.99% of people don't know what's on your wrist and don't really care, and as people have rightly pointed out rep watches are not among the most harmful counterfeit products out there. Besides, hell -- there are kids getting raped in the streets and chained to machine guns in parts of Africa, there are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis dying because the President of the United States thought invading their country would be a neat way to settle a family vendetta, give fat government contracts to his buddies' companies (now based in Dubai, natch) and solve the cheap gas supply problem in one fell swoop -- the rich being inconvenienced in their quest to get richer is not a major injustice in the grand scheme of things IMO. I just don't think it makes any of us Robin Hood. TTK, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dak244 Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 there are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis dying because the President of the United States thought invading their country would be a neat way to settle a family vendetta, give fat government contracts to his buddies' companies (now based in Dubai, natch) and solve the cheap gas supply problem in one fell swoop Wow you couldn't be any more incorrect, but this is not a political debate, let's keep it that way.. ignorance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 In any case, we should always keep in mind that 99.99% of people don't know what's on your wrist and don't really care, and as people have rightly pointed out rep watches are not among the most harmful counterfeit products out there. Besides, hell -- there are kids getting raped in the streets and chained to machine guns in parts of Africa, there are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis dying because the President of the United States thought invading their country would be a neat way to settle a family vendetta, give fat government contracts to his buddies' companies (now based in Dubai, natch) and solve the cheap gas supply problem in one fell swoop -- the rich being inconvenienced in their quest to get richer is not a major injustice in the grand scheme of things IMO. I just don't think it makes any of us Robin Hood. TTK, maybe. Hey, stop sugarcoating it dude and tell us how you really feel!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haveblue Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 ....The click-wheel interface. It was this interface that is patented up the wazoo by Apple that allowed MP3 players to become as ubiquitous as they are today...... What I want to know Pug is when did Randy become a MP3 player?!?!? I buy reps because it's my way of sticking it to the Man!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdorman Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 ... there are tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis dying because the President of the United States thought invading their country ... give fat government contracts to his buddies' companies (now based in Dubai, natch) and solve the cheap gas supply problem in one fell swoop -- the rich being inconvenienced in their quest to get richer is not a major injustice in the grand scheme of things IMO. I just don't think it makes any of us Robin Hood. TTK, maybe. Sounds a lot like why the reason why the Emperor of Japan attacked the United States. Not a positive comparison to be sure... but some similarities. As for all those that are dying, last I checked the most reliable of statistics show the death rate to be lower then of that under Sadam and interestingly, lower then the suicide rate in the Japanese military. Of course, under Saddam, statistics and news where all fiction. The problems in Iraq have nothing to do with a family fued. Like some one mentioned, this is not a political topic so unless one gets started, my last word on it... besides, I am just 'busting your balls' a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 I buy reps because it's my way of sticking it to the Man!! Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubus Posted March 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 i read today on one of polish watch forums, that when customs confiscate a replica item, they contact the manufacturer and the manufacturer decide whever they remove the bands label and give the labeless item to charity or to destroy the replica and give some labeled gen items to charity as well. Imo thats the stupidy, so if our reps gets to custom gen producers gieve gen watches to charities? Imposible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 This is a illegal activity that we love so much. Make no mistake about it. But as if you were to ask me just how bad I feel, maybe not as bad as I should feel. I do feel what some of the other posters have said, such as "sticking it to the man", but the more common one, now that reps are getting better, is wow, it really may not be worth it to spend $ XXX on brand XYZ. Unless you really are talking about complications, I feel that luxury brand watches really have a pretty decent profit return. Who's to say that reps don't? I have a few gens, and I'm sure I would buy more in the future, but probably not on brands or models that can be repped. I am very happy with several of the rep Pams that I own. But would I buy a gen Panerai? Maybe not, given that from their movements standpoint, it was not that technically different from the base movement. Now with those new in house movements maybe, but we all know that if they were asking XXX dollars for ETA based movements, it is only going to cost more with their in house movements, and I am sure every single model would be limited edition..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geekybiker Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Just a small quibble, but WE aren't stealing money from the Gen companies. Its the people making and selling the reps that are doing it. After all we are not the ones profiting on the sale. Depending on your various local laws you may be committing various other crimes though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_uk Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Its better than stealing money to buy reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Just a small quibble, but WE aren't stealing money from the Gen companies. Its the people making and selling the reps that are doing it. After all we are not the ones profiting on the sale. Depending on your various local laws you may be committing various other crimes though. Sure we are. Merely our wearing replicas devalues their brand. ps. Oh, and we're all tax cheats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geekybiker Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 Sure we are. Merely our wearing replicas devalues their brand. I beg to differ. You can just as easily argue that's its free advertising. Besides that's a very difficult thing to quantify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 First of all sorry for not reading all the posts... so i don't know if someone already gave the same answer that i do here... I think buying reps is NOT stealing from the genuine brands. They have a limited production that sells out every year. The reps even contribute to their name because "everybody" wants to have or act like they have a rolex or panerai or breitling .. etc. I think this only effects the lower grade brands which are affordable... but won't be bought because they don't have the prestigous name and aura... and they are in the affordable price-zone where more people are capable of buying them. These brands are the biggest victims of the huge replica business IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollux1 Posted March 13, 2007 Report Share Posted March 13, 2007 The guys who make, market and distribute these watches from Asia do so to make a few quid, nothing wrong with that in my book. But I like most of the members of this site joined because we were getting shafted from all the dodgy rep sites who were charging more than we can get our reps for from the sellers here, so in essence even tho "our" sellers are doing wrong, as are we to a (small) degree too, at least we have one up on the scam sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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