bigben Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 http://replica-watch.info/forum/viewtopic....asc&start=0 I thought that there was one particularly well stated post in response: I have to say that as a relative newcomer to the Darkside, reading this thread has made me very unsure that I want to continue purchasing from any of the cartel members. Now, I have already known that the dropshippers are cause for some concern (because they don't even see the product they are selling), and for that reason I have gone with people like Ruby who will send me exact photos of the watch that will be shipped. There are good dealers out there... but I think the overwhelming weight of the evidence suggests that it is not a good idea to continue supporting the "Big 4". Start voting with your dollars and use the other dealers. I've heard others saying that they tolerate deliberate misrepresentations regarding the quality of goods because "this is an illegal business." So they continue to purchase to satisfy their habit and to appease the dealers. This is so irrational that I wonder if these people aren't just "shills" for the dealers - what if the people making these sorts of comments are in fact the dealers themselves? I wouldn't put it past dealers to have multiple user names. With multiple accounts, a dealer could make some comments on a thread like this without fear of having their comments disregarded as being self-serving. They may be the source of dissension in the ranks. At any rate, the real problem with the "I'll accept lying because this is illegal" argument is that there must be honor among thieves. Dealers depend (as all businesses do) on repeat business and word of mouth. If you make it known that you will stop referring people to them and that you will stop purchasing from them - they will have to react. Remember that these things come from China - $200 is a lot of money in China. In fact, $200 is $58 more THAN AN ENTIRE MONTH'S WAGES for the average CHINESE UNIVERSITY GRADUATE! Worse, the people involved with manufacturing these watches are not even university graduates! You are getting ripped off! (see here) Salary info: http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp...;story_id=12004 Valuation: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=1...G=Google+Search AVOID DROPSHIPPERS LIKE THE PLAGUE. You will note that that TTK, Pug, and various other senior members have said the same. Newcomers would be wise to heed their advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
got-it Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I can understand starting this thread...but do you have to post the same thing on several threads??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I can understand starting this thread...but do you have to post the same thing on several threads??? No - I apologize, I tried to delete this one but I don't think I have the ability because I haven't paid via paypal (the subscription price). I posted in the other threads because it was directly relevant to the RWI discussion started (just as here) by Edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
got-it Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 No worries. Just wanted to give you a heads up cause the admins might get [censored] with clone postings. I also think this information is very relevent, considering I too lived half my life in an asian country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchman12345 Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I don't know if that is entirely true. From what I read the cost of ETA reps in China is not that much less than we pay. I dont know what an ETA 2824 costs to the trade but I'd be surprised if its less than $50 -60. Your argument can be applied to a lot of things, you can but a bottle of coke in Africa for a few cents but its the market we live in drives the price. You say the average Chinese wage is around $150 a month, so then a watch should be maybe $25 or so. Nice way to think about things but its simply not the way world markets work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Been there done that! CLICK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Been there done that! CLICK Yes - but the majority of responders in your thread seemed to conclude that the dealers should make such profits because they have lots of "RISK". This couldn't be farther from the truth. The very existence of such a plentiful counterfeit market in China is evidence that the Chinese government doesn't enforce the trademark/copyright laws. Check this out: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/26/...ain595875.shtml They are even counterfeiting golf clubs and Mercedes Benz! From the article: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) This couldn't be farther from the truth. Sorry to say it....but you have no clue.......most of you sit in your ivory towers...isolated from the reality of the situation....swanning all over the net collecting information dross......whilst I and other dealers....take the actual 'risk'......I can walk into a Post Office tomorrow.....and find my packages taken out of the postal system for inspection....if I refuse....they get opened anyway.....in my presence and in handcuffs......if they find counterfeit items....which is against the law in Thailand.....( it's only NOT against the law if you don't get caught )........I get transported swiftly to Bang Kwang......appear before the beak in the forenoon....and get found guilty.....pay a massive fine.....do not pass GO....and defo do not collect $200.......I then sit in the sweaty Bangkok Grey Bar hotel....for a few weeks.whilst they decide whether to deport me or confine me......deportation is the better of the two obviously.......but it means no more trips to the LOS for me...red carded and never allowed back in...which means I lose my property.....50" wide screen DLP....and everything I'm surrounded by.....including the lovely Pom......! So don't tell me that dealers have no risk...most of you wouldn't know a clue if it walked up ...bit you on the leg....and said..."I'm a fargin' clue"....! I deserve my profit.....I work hard for it and take the risks that members won't...........Sawadi krap.... Edited March 28, 2007 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekhunter Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashwatch Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 I deserve my profit.....I work hard for it and take the risks that members won't...........Sawadi krap.... the thing is this, dealers dont make 200% of any watch, i can vouch for that.. or maybe its just me.. who are not the bigger boys... we are here to serve you, to make quality rep's affordable (compared to sites like bestswiss) and within reasonable range cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSlickAK Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 You have some great stuff listed Sash. I can't wait to deal with you next! Gotta save up first.... BSAK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben Posted March 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 Sorry to say it....but you have no clue.......most of you sit in your ivory towers...isolated from the reality of the situation....swanning all over the net collecting information dross......whilst I and other dealers....take the actual 'risk'......I can walk into a Post Office tomorrow.....and find my packages taken out of the postal system for inspection....if I refuse....they get opened anyway.....in my presence and in handcuffs......if they find counterfeit items....which is against the law in Thailand.....( it's only NOT against the law if you don't get caught )........I get transported swiftly to Bang Kwang......appear before the beak in the forenoon....and get found guilty.....pay a massive fine.....do not pass GO....and defo do not collect $200.......I then sit in the sweaty Bangkok Grey Bar hotel....for a few weeks.whilst they decide whether to deport me or confine me......deportation is the better of the two obviously.......but it means no more trips to the LOS for me...red carded and never allowed back in...which means I lose my property.....50" wide screen DLP....and everything I'm surrounded by.....including the lovely Pom......! So don't tell me that dealers have no risk...most of you wouldn't know a clue if it walked up ...bit you on the leg....and said..."I'm a fargin' clue"....! I deserve my profit.....I work hard for it and take the risks that members won't...........Sawadi krap.... TTK - You're absolutely right. I wasn't talking about you - I was talking about the chinese dropshippers. You do take a risk - but those who manufacture them severely overstate theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 i have a watch (maybe two) on the way from neil right now and, guess what? i could care less how much profit he is making this is my hobby and these are luxury items, not necessities. if the oil companies, who generally pump oil out of public lands on leases they pay the govt pennies on the dollar for then get tax breaks because the oil will eventually run out make excessive profits, then that pisses me off. but neil making a few bucks? doesn't bother me. the entertainment value of his posts and the quality of his pics alone are worth the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted March 28, 2007 Report Share Posted March 28, 2007 TTK - You're absolutely right. I wasn't talking about you - I was talking about the chinese dropshippers. You do take a risk - but those who manufacture them severely overstate theirs. I think you are confusing manufacturers with our dealers. All our dealers are at risk. The Chinese based ones may only be financially at risk, but still at risk. Those, like Neil, who are based elsewhere obviously are at the risk of JAIL! The manufacturers, which are china based, have their own issues, but you shouldn't confuse the manufacturers with the dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdorman Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 Geesh, this again. By the way, the link you gave us says that the average chinese University grad in 2004 made 1500RMB which is $193 US. The dealers DO face forfeit of property and of assets, deportation, and prison not to mention some of the charactors that they have to deal with. EVEN in China. Sure, prison is more the exception rather then the rule in China, but it still happens and is happening more and more. Not to mention all the palm greasing that goes on... police, postal, etc. Do you know that one of those little booths in those famous Chinese replica centers can cost $5000 a month? Any idea what a professional website and hosting costs? Our dealers are considered criminals and do engage in criminal activity.... and I for one appreciate that I don't know about you but if I was going to deal with what they do, I would have to make a $hit load more then the average grad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 .......Remember that these things come from China - $200 is a lot of money in China. In fact, $200 is $58 more THAN AN ENTIRE MONTH'S WAGES for the average CHINESE UNIVERSITY GRADUATE! Worse, the people involved with manufacturing these watches are not even university graduates! You are getting ripped off! (see here) Salary info: http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp...;story_id=12004 Valuation: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=1...G=Google+Search AVOID DROPSHIPPERS LIKE THE PLAGUE. You will note that that TTK, Pug, and various other senior members have said the same. Newcomers would be wise to heed their advice. What happen to our dealers here has nothing to do with how much the Chinese worker make in China. Please stay in course and focusing on the real problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhinagoya Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I grew up in the retail business, so I will start out by admitting that my post is biased. In my opinion; As to the manufacturing cost of a particular item, it is none of the consumer's business. It is up to the consumer to look at the product, assess the value, then determine for themselves if the price is fair and/or warranted. Luxury items, by definition, are 'worth' whatever the market will bear. What the market will bear has nothing whatsoever to do with manufacturing and distribution costs, nor does it have anything to do with risk. It has to do with perceived value and desirability. If you do not believe this, then you are more than welcome to go ask some of the luxury watch manufacturers about it. The sellers on this board have no responsibility to sell anything to anyone. They don't even have a responsibility to be here. The consumers here have the right to complain about price and the sellers have the right to ignore them or to make concessions. The consumers here do not have a right to commit character assassination because they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochenbrau Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 . In fact, $200 is $58 more THAN AN ENTIRE MONTH'S WAGES for the average CHINESE UNIVERSITY GRADUATE! Worse, the people involved with manufacturing these watches are not even university graduates! So? If the demand is there, and they are willing to supply it, then the price of the watch is exactly what the market has determined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyndonville Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 I deserve my profit.....I work hard for it and take the risks that members won't...........Sawadi krap.... Spot on, Neil. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyndonville Posted March 29, 2007 Report Share Posted March 29, 2007 i have a watch (maybe two) on the way from neil right now and, guess what? i could care less how much profit he is making this is my hobby and these are luxury items, not necessities. if the oil companies, who generally pump oil out of public lands on leases they pay the govt pennies on the dollar for then get tax breaks because the oil will eventually run out make excessive profits, then that pisses me off. but neil making a few bucks? doesn't bother me. the entertainment value of his posts and the quality of his pics alone are worth the money I hear ya on that! Actually, I look forward to Neil's postings. I anticipate them. I chuckle over most of his rants because he's being honest with all of us, especially himself. Insofar as his, or, anyone else's, profit goes, they're entitled to as much as the market will bear. As far as I'm concerned if they're not making a MINIMUM of 30% then they're in the wrong business in my opinion. As Neil and others have said, they're the ones taking the risk. Not to state the obvious, but, no one is twisting anyone's arm to buy what they're selling. Read what they have to say about whatever it is they're selling, and, most of all, buyer beware, and that's true with anything you buy. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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