seanf Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 One thought that I had was a better attempt to educate newbies on the front end. If the Hublot and Rolex lawyers make the decision to target this forum, there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop them. VIP, non-VIP, restricted access, number of posts..... doesn't matter. They'll find a way in. So I don't think there's anything we can really do to prevent those types of unfriendlies. But I think we can do something about newbies making newbie mistakes. I think a lot of newbies get caught up in the newness and excitement of our little hobby, and make some really stupid mistakes without fully realizing the consequences. Things like trips to the AD, posting on TZ, etc. I don't think these actions are necessarily taken with a bad intent-- just an excess of hubris and a lack of common sense as to the realities of our hobby. What I've seen done on some torrent boards is that when you initially register, you're taken immediately to a PM that lays out the rules of the forum. Not a big document-- really just a "Top Ten" list of things to do and not to do. Personally, I think something like that could be useful--and educational--for the newbies. Just a suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunk21 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Excellent points, TTK. We can become too complacent around here at times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 @ steveG and sportsterrider. Ok, well it seems as if I am not the only one who is confused. If indeed the point is that I am profitting of board members, then I would say that statement is out of line. How offering a service, where people freely decide if they want to have it done or not, with the costs clearly posted up front, is considered a bad thing, then I am missing something. Maybe we'll get clarification on what it really means. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 One thought that I had was a better attempt to educate newbies on the front end. If the Hublot and Rolex lawyers make the decision to target this forum, there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop them. VIP, non-VIP, restricted access, number of posts..... doesn't matter. They'll find a way in. So I don't think there's anything we can really do to prevent those types of unfriendlies. But I think we can do something about newbies making newbie mistakes. I think a lot of newbies get caught up in the newness and excitement of our little hobby, and make some really stupid mistakes without fully realizing the consequences. Things like trips to the AD, posting on TZ, etc. I don't think these actions are necessarily taken with a bad intent-- just an excess of hubris and a lack of common sense as to the realities of our hobby. What I've seen done on some torrent boards is that when you initially register, you're taken immediately to a PM that lays out the rules of the forum. Not a big document-- really just a "Top Ten" list of things to do and not to do. Personally, I think something like that could be useful--and educational--for the newbies. Just a suggestion. I think that's an excellent idea, that way, people would know from the beginning that discretion is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 (...) But I think we can do something about newbies making newbie mistakes. I think a lot of newbies get caught up in the newness and excitement of our little hobby, and make some really stupid mistakes without fully realizing the consequences. Things like trips to the AD, posting on TZ, etc. (...) Or linking to the manufacturer's website, or any external board that is a foe to this (our) very board... at least that does not have the same hobby Forbidding/inactivating/editing direct links except authorized (like imageshack for instance) would already help avoiding simple curious to have a glance here (just by clicking on the referers of their website). But... are we (am I) having a mod's brainstorming ? Maybe we're already speaking of things which are beyond our prerogatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Increase PM usage... sometimes it seems that we love to read our own words in public... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Open and free access and limitless information in this illegal trade are like oil and water, they will never mix. You cannot have a forum where ALL aspects of the hobby are open to the public at large without inviting trouble. If this were a website where we discussed our passion for the finest marajuana, we would have a blast talking about the best ways to smoke it, prepare it, mix it, eat it etc. We'd discuss levels of quality, how it used to be in the old days...but we certainly wouldn't openly advertise selling it or provide easily accessed links to ganjaman.com, or have a sellers trade section where we openly traded dime baggies without expecting eventual trouble from authorities. I have always wondered how is it that we do this in what appears to be a modest amount of sunshine without too much trouble. It has always seemed too good to be true. We need to strike a balance between access and cover. There has been way too much "Wal-Mart" in the buying, trading, selling and expectation here. We would be best served with a little more "Pssst...come over here" in our conversations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanf Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 As I said, this is only a suggestion. Mods and admin should feel free to use or ignore it as they see fit. Ultimately, it's their decision--not ours. If they feel that our discussion crosses the line, they should just close this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackrain Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Open and free access and limitless information in this illegal trade are like oil and water, they will never mix. You cannot have a forum where ALL aspects of the hobby are open to the public at large without inviting trouble. If this were a website where we discussed our passion for the finest marajuana, we would have a blast talking about the best ways to smoke it, prepare it, mix it, eat it etc. We'd discuss levels of quality, how it used to be in the old days...but we certainly wouldn't openly advertise selling it or provide easily accessed links to ganjaman.com, or have a sellers trade section where we openly traded dime baggies without expecting eventual trouble from authorities. I have always wondered how is it that we do this in what appears to be a modest amount of sunshine without too much trouble. It has always seemed too good to be true. We need to strike a balance between access and cover. There has been way too much "Wal-Mart" in the buying, trading, selling and expectation here. We would be best served with a little more "Pssst...come over here" in our conversations. The Ganjaman.com link isn't working for me, are you sure you spelled it right? He must have moved his website again, damn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 The Ganjaman.com link isn't working for me, are you sure you spelled it right? He must have moved his website again, damn! I'm not smoking anything that's dangled from that thong!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam1174 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 I know I only have a few posts on this board, therefore I don't have much clout, but I have been very active on one of the other boards, so I'm not completely "in the dark", so to speak. I just wanted to clarify that so that people don't immediately dismiss my comment below... My sister is an attorney, and I asked her about this. She said that there is the criminal law issue and the civil law issue. On the criminal law side, as long as the administrators of the board are not doing anything illegal (i.e. selling the watches themselves) then it is a freedom of speech issue and they can organize the board any way they want. No government authority can shut them down (in the US). On the civil law side, it's a little more complicated. The gen companies can bring a lawsuit against the board, and even if they have absolutely no case whatsoever, they can drag the owner of the board through legal hell for years and years. She said that since the boards had a special section reserved specifically for dealers, and the dealers had to be approved by the board to post in those sections, it was a tacit endorsement of those dealers. What they could do is eliminate the dealer sections and have people who want to sell watches post their adds under the other topics. They could also have a disclaimer stating that it is against board policy to sell counterfeit goods, and that those posts would be deleted when found by the administrators. Then the dealers would have to use "code words" to sell the watches, but basically as long as the administrators can show they are attempting to police the board, we can keep doing what we've been doing. It will take the noobs a little longer to get up to speed (a good thing?), but those of us who know how to contact the dealers will be essentially unaffected. A whois search for rwg.cc shows they are registered in Malaysia. Perhaps they should change their registration to the US. Unless, of course, the Malaysian legal system gives them more protection. My sis doesn't know much (anything) about the Malaysian legal system. By the way... My sister charges $225 per hour, and I used up one hour of her time. I gave her $225 plus a $30 "shipping and handling" tip since she's my sister. Sooooo, I would appreciate it if one of the dealers would send me a stainless/white Daytona with correct subdial spacing and running seconds at 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Can you post a picture of your sister? Anyone who makes $225 an hour causes me to fall in love sight unseen. I'm picturing Lindsey Lohan with a law degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanf Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 @sam-- Very interesting and valuable advice. Only thing I would add to that is that this is precisely the same strategy that the RIAA and MPAA used to take down Napster and Kazaa. As I understand it, the test is whether the primary purpose of the forum is to faciliate illegal activity (in our case, as was the case in Napster and Kazaa, the illegal activity would be facilitating copyright infringements). If there is a legal and valid purpose behind the forum, then it's OK. Here, I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing and analyzing reps. But hosting a dedicated dealers' section is obviously more problematic. But I would, once again, raise the question as to whether the mods and admin think it's OK for us to discuss this on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 How offering a service, where people freely decide if they want to have it done or not, with the costs clearly posted up front, is considered a bad thing, then I am missing something. RG Hmmm, I am fully happy with the stuff I got back from you Ziggy. Nice gen little crown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 @N*** - excellent points. @polynomial - Who decides where and how you spend your money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam1174 Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Can you post a picture of your sister? Anyone who makes $225 an hour causes me to fall in love sight unseen. I'm picturing Lindsey Lohan with a law degree. LOL... She is hot, too. I can say that because she is adopted. But sorry... no pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Hmmm, I am fully happy with the stuff I got back from you Ziggy. Nice gen little crown Wonderful, thanks. Cant' beat AirMail for shipping to the EU. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) "I think our dealers are filthy rich....at least $25,000 a month".....serve no useful purpose for the sustenance of our hobby That is my post and I don't agree with you on that. I did not want to stir up anything just to point out that maybe the high prices we are charged for our watches are not justified! provocative post such as this Sounds a little hypocrite coming from you... by those who don't share our views. I think I share the view of most of the board members here (the topic is rated 4*).. maybe not your view TTK Edited April 12, 2007 by Rolexman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) @Rolexman......you're testament to the fact that the old adage is true.......you can't fix stupid......or in your case......polish as hard as you like....you can't shine [censored]....! Whether you agree with me or not......your post was purely speculative with no solid evidence to back up your assertion.....allied to the fact that it was designed to be inflammatory.......and in real terms provided no benefit whatsoever to any member of the board........it was a useless post......! Do a little poll......and ask the members if they think or thought this poll served any purpose or was just prurient.....! Your arithmetic was and still is way off........speculation...nothing more.....! BTW...if YOU think the prices here aren't justified....what are you gonna do if the boards eventually disappear.....and you're cast into the void of the WWW and the fakeluxurygifts.com vendors......let's hear you bleat about unjustified pricing.......and don't run away with the idea that there will be any succour gleaned from the cartel once the reins have been removed. Edited April 12, 2007 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 (edited) BTW...if YOU think the prices here aren't justified....what are you gonna do if the boards eventually disappear.....and you're cast into the void of the WWW and the fakeluxurygifts.com vendors......let's hear you bleat about unjustified pricing.......and don't run away with the idea that there will be any succour gleaned from the cartel once the reins have been removed. Now that you mention it.... it wouldn't surprise me if our 'trusted' dealers (and I ain't talking about you TTK) also run a couple of other sites which are very simular to our so called scam sites were they charge even higher prices than they do here. Edited April 12, 2007 by Rolexman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 At this stage we have little idea what is happening behind the scene, what I mean is what kinds of "trouble" the Host or the owner of this board is facing? Did they get some sort of warning shot from a lawyer or they just panic.....we don't really know. If "they" try to completely shut down the "industry" then all board + all the website would have facing the same problem now. My guess is it could be a "local" issue and I hope I'm right. One thing is sure: some people not too happy about too many rep on the street but shut down this site and use it as an example will have zero effect on this issue. When authority trying to crack down some "issue" they usually going after the "big fish" and target the source first and I don't think we are the "fish". However, the board may have to start thinking about stop listing the dealers' site or members need to stop mentioned name (I'm 100% agree with TTK on this) because those are part of promoting the sale of rep and it looks bad in some people's eye. What I can see here is we all need to prepare for some adjustment.....I guess time will tell. *If you hang out on any public forum you will know that Noob questions, hate post or non-sense thread are common things. Mod can always remove the post, give a warning shot or even banned that member if they think he/she is way out of line. Just need some enforcement. Let's don't focus on that as we have a much bigger problem here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 @ steveG and sportsterrider. Ok, well it seems as if I am not the only one who is confused. If indeed the point is that I am profitting of board members, then I would say that statement is out of line. How offering a service, where people freely decide if they want to have it done or not, with the costs clearly posted up front, is considered a bad thing, then I am missing something. Maybe we'll get clarification on what it really means. RG I think he was whining about the dealers, not about you, The Zigmeister. And I have yet to see any evidence that he's been coerced with a gun to his head to buy their watches. The last time I checked, Timex was cheaper and kept great time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jens Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 But I would, once again, raise the question as to whether the mods and admin think it's OK for us to discuss this on this thread. Of course, it's up to them. In my opinion, nothing else than already public/open info on legislation and how it has been applied has been discussed so far, and everyone who have valuable info should allowed to provide and discuss such info. If you openly discuss these matters with the intention to propose/find workable 'solutions' to keep status quo, that's a completly different matter. Maybe adm /mod could share their point of view wrt this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam_tgg Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 Now that you mention it.... it wouldn't surprice me if our 'trusted' dealers (and I ain't talking about you TTK) also run a couple of other sites which are very simular to our so called scam sites were they charge even higher prices than they do here. @Rolexman, in a time with the "cartel" and so stuff running, make such an insinuation is not very intelligent. TTK is right: we must protect, not our hobby. We must protect the runners of the boards, and our dealers (specially those running bussines in EU and USA) (just beacuse I think the laws are more stickt than in oder countries, but may be I am wrong) @The Zigmeister: you give much more to this boards, than the most of us together. Now that you mention it.... it wouldn't surprice me if our 'trusted' dealers (and I ain't talking about you TTK) also run a couple of other sites which are very simular to our so called scam sites were they charge even higher prices than they do here. @Rolexman, in a time with the "cartel" and so stuff running, make such an insinuation is not very intelligent. TTK is right: we must protect, not our hobby. We must protect the runners of the boards, and our dealers (specially those running bussines in EU and USA) (just beacuse I think the laws are more strickt than in oder countries, but may be I am wrong) @The Zigmeister: you give much more to this boards, than the most of us together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted April 12, 2007 Report Share Posted April 12, 2007 @Ziggy: you give much more to this boards, than the most of us together. Thank you RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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