RWG Technical Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdorman Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 The Zigmeister rises to the challenge again! Top drawer demonstration of the two schools of thought. I know which I prefer! Thanks very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Ziggy rises to the challenge again! Top drawer demonstration of the two schools of thought. I know which I prefer! Thanks very much! The pictures explain what many words could not...now you know what I knew already. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 I trust all my movements to you for a reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolexman Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 The Zigmeister.. You are the master!!! Maybe you should change your name to Obi One kenows all about servicing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 This is the reason you get all of my work RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega1 Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 EXCELLENT post The Zigmeister. Thanks for taking the time to do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 As a fellow member said previously ... The Zigmeister FTW!!!111one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torques Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) Wow, that's an impressive documentary. I'm amazed a so-called technician would do something like that, what an assclown. Edited May 3, 2007 by Torques Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 I'm getting the feeling somone else is making an assclown out of himself by quoting the entire 16page long post made by The Zigmeister...! edit: i see you fixed it, attaboy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montydog Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Awesome post by the master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsterRider Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 The pictures explain what many words could not...now you know what I knew already. RG Heck, I think I could make an argument that the Tech's method of 'servicing' may actually be worse than no servicing at all! All those places where the cleaning/rinse solution was hidden under various parts can't be good for the movement, and may just serve to spread dirt around to other places where none existed before (not to mention the stripping away of existing oils that aren't replaced). Well done, The Zigmeister! Thanks! SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 wow. great post ziggy -- the fact that you didn't dismiss "the technician's" suggestions out of hand and actually tried (and documented) his method speaks volumes about your character and work practices. it must have been satisfying to reinforce your strongly held beliefs regarding doing a job the right way... you are an invaluable asset to this forum -- as you mentioned in your post -- it is really difficult for us watch newbies or someone who brings their watch to an "experienced" watchmaker ("the technician's" boss has owned a "watchmaking" shop for many years i believe?) to know the difference between a REAL servicing and a swish & dip. will be interesting to see a response from "the technician" on this one. deltatahoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRG Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Top Draw stuff The Zigmeister, case proven I think! Should be a slam dunk future reference and explanation to anybody questioning the correct way to service a movement. Thanks for taking the time to prove it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 I am all for short cuts and time savers - when the results are the same as if it was done the right way. Certainly if the results would have been the same, then it would be a great time saver, but it appears to have flaws. The cleaner I use (L&R watch cleaning solution) is quite harsh, I put a A7750 that was quite dirty in my ultrasonic machine, put the heater on, and left it for 30 minutes...when I came back, the movement was EXTREMELY clean, even some of the plating had been "cleaned" off from the gears revealing the base metal...ooops. Not taking the movement apart, I would be concened that not all the cleaner is rinsed away, and the risk of corrosion setting in between the plates and parts. I too would look forward to the response, and actually found this quite interesting to test it out. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Technician Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) You are willfully ignorant, The Zigmeister. I didn't tell you to not take apart the calendar mech, because it's obvious you need to. I didn't mention the dial side at all, because the hour and minute wheel will FALL OFF if you don't take them off. And I didn't tell you not to pull the cannon pinion because I thought you would understand. I told you to pull the winding bridge, and leave the CLICK SPRING in place, not the wheel. I basically told you to leave everything you didn't have to dissassemble in place, I figured you'd know how you carry that out properly. I'll take pictures of how it's done when I can. Photography is not my specialty. You also obviously did not rinse thouroghly with L&R cleaning solution & rinse, (THE ONLY CLEANER AND RINSE A WATCHMAKER SHOULD USE) and do no have a heat/spin dry cycle on your ultrasonic, otherwise all that goo wouldn't be left behind. From the looks of that I'll bet you don't use proper cleaning solution at all. To lube the barrel wall, use your smallest oiler in the gap between the spring and barrel wall. You have way too much grease on that barrel wall. That will result in too little friction causing the spring to slip when the watch is not at full wind. Your method = reduced power reserve. Forgot: Also, the cap jewels WILL come clean in an ultrasonic when together if you use proper cleaner and rinse, and will dry in a spin cycle, but you can't oil them in place without an automatic oiler, which you obviously don't have. Nobody makes hairsprings? Where do they come from? Storks? I just watched my boss make a new one for a 100+ year old minute repeater. Heat bluing and everything. Edited May 3, 2007 by The Technician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 You are willfully ignorant, Ziggy. I didn't tell you to not take apart the calendar mech, because it's obvious you need to. I didn't mention the dial side at all, because the hour and minute wheel will FALL OFF if you don't take them off. And I didn't tell you not to pull the cannon pinion because I thought you would understand. I told you to pull the winding bridge, and leave the CLICK SPRING in place, not the wheel. I basically told you to leave everything you didn't have to dissassemble in place, I figured you'd know how you carry that out properly. I'll take pictures of how it's done when I can. Photography is not my specialty. You also obviously did not rinse thouroghly with L&R cleaning solution & rinse, (THE ONLY CLEANER AND RINSE A WATCHMAKER SHOULD USE) and do no have a heat/spin dry cycle on your ultrasonic, otherwise all that goo wouldn't be left behind. From the looks of that I'll bet you don't use proper cleaning solution at all. To lube the barrel wall, use your smallest oiler in the gap between the spring and barrel wall. You have way too much grease on that barrel wall. That will result in too little friction causing the spring to slip when the watch is not at full wind. Your method = reduced power reserve. Nobody makes hairsprings? Where do they come from? Storks? I just watched my boss make a new one for a 100+ year old minute repeater. Heat bluing and everything. I followed your instructions to the letter, now your changing them... On this model, as you can plainly see, the hour and cannon pinion will NOT fall off, they are held in place with the big cover thing, it's plain to see in the pictures. I did use L&R cleaner and rinse, it's the only thing I have in the shop, and blew the movement with my dust blower and dried and dried it... I did not use "too" much grease in the barrel wall, you forgot to mention how you remove the "OLD" dried and gummed up grease, when the spring bridle is tight up against the side of the barrel... All my serviced watches run longer than the factory specifications after I am finished with them, no slippage on my end. But dont' ask me, ask anyone who had a movement serviced at my shop. Makes hairsprings? Amazing, considering a difference of 1/10,000" in thickness of a Mainspring will equal to 6 minutes of time change per day on a movement, I am in awe that this person can fabricate a "hairspring"...I can't imagine the tolearnces it requires... There is one maker or hairsprings in the world, a member of the SWATCH group... I am not willfully ignorant in this topic, but it appears that you are. The proof is in the pictures, and if that's not enough, just "Google" watch servicing and see what comes up, better yet, post your way on TZ and watch the sparks fly. You can keep your "Swish and Dip" scam servicing, I'll keep to the real one... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasigi Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 You can keep your "Swish and Dip" scam servicing, I'll keep to the real one... Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) You are willfully ignorant, The Zigmeister. I didn't tell you to not take apart the calendar mech, because it's obvious you need to. I didn't mention the dial side at all, because the hour and minute wheel will FALL OFF if you don't take them off. And I didn't tell you not to pull the cannon pinion because I thought you would understand. I told you to pull the winding bridge, and leave the CLICK SPRING in place, not the wheel. I basically told you to leave everything you didn't have to dissassemble in place, I figured you'd know how you carry that out properly. I'll take pictures of how it's done when I can. Photography is not my specialty. Sorry Technician ( part time)......that makes no sense whatsoever......YOUR post wasn't directed specifically at The Zigmeister.....it was posted for ALL members to read...bearing in mind that a large number of members have a lot less experience than The Zigmeister......how were they supposed to divine what you 'meant' without ABSOLUTE clear instructions....whilst it may be OK for you to assume that The Zigmeister would 'assume' and read between the lines..what your intentions were.........it's not OK to mislead 'non-proshefunul' members with mumbo jumbo.......not OK....! BTW......how much do you charge for a battery swap...? Edited May 3, 2007 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Technician Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 They'll FALL OFF if you take the calendar mech apart like you need to. I didn't mention the calendar mech because not all watches have one, and they are all different unless they are variations of the same movement. And I also told you to SPIN IT DRY, which you admit you aren't capable of doing. I told you to oil the cap jewels in place with a auto oiler, which you also couldn't do. I didn't think I'd have to walk you through everyu step. I'm not a typist. Whatever The Zigmeister. Here's an article on making a new hairspring in watch school: http://www.tp178.com/jd/watch-school/6/article.htmld That one guy in the SWATCH group must be teaching others how to do it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Physher007 Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 I am bit confused. In Techie's original post, didn't he state "If all I worked on were top drawer Chopard's and APs, you can bet they'd get that treatment everytime. But i'm working in the real world, and the time saved gets passed on to the consumer as dollars saved." Seems the argument isn't which is the proper way to service, but whether or not ETA movements are worthy of this service. The Zigmeister seems to think they are, Techie seems to think they aren't... I know I think mine are... By the way, interesting post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Technician Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 Sorry Technician ( part time)......that makes no sense whatsoever......YOUR post wasn't directed specifically at The Zigmeister.....it was posted for ALL members to read...bearing in mind that a large number of members have a lot less experience than The Zigmeister......how were they supposed to divine what you 'meant' without ABSOLUTE clear instructions....whilst it may be OK for you to assume that The Zigmeister would 'assume' and read between the lines..what your intentions were.........it's not OK to mislead 'non-proshefunul' members with mumbo jumbo.......not OK....! BTW......how much do you charge for a battery swap...? I didn't intend to try to teach total beginners how to do it. Battery swap is $2 for standard, $7 for lithium. The girl at the counter in the front does them, unless the watch is a nice one. Why do you use so many periods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usil Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 The Zigmeister would get my watches - hands down. Usil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 I trust all my movements to you for a reason... Ditto and enough said. The Zigmeister, thanks again for the education. The Technician should thank you as well, unless of course he's out of business now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted May 3, 2007 Report Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) I never mentioned "total beginners'.....I mentioned members who have "less" experience than The Zigmeister.....your automatic assumption was that everyone BUT total begiiners....would understand whay you DID NOT say.....and that isn't the case.....! BTW...periods or not....you understood what I was saying.....whereas not everyone here understood what you were saying......what's the problem with periods.....? On a final note...someone said that you could bring a lot to the table.......that maybe......undercooked tho'.......! Edited May 3, 2007 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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