Dealer pre-serviced watches?

[Jumbie]

I've been trying to research servicing for the last couple of hours before I purchase a TAG Link Chronograph with the 7750b1 movement.

From what I've read, it breaks down into several camps -

1. I never service my watches and they run fine.

2. Servicing will give me peace of mind.

3. From The Zigmeister - none of the watches [replicas] he's serviced have been properly oiled and many are dirty. An analogy he's used several times is, roughly, "Do you wait for a car to break down before servicing or do preventive maintenance?"

4. The watches are so cheap that I'll run them into the ground and buy a new one.

5. If/when they break, I'll either deal with it then or replace the movement with a "better" non-Chinese one e.g. proper ETA 7750.

For myself, I tend to agree with points 2 and 3.

I hope that this watch will last me at least 2-3 years. I plan on wearing it every day, all day; exceptions being while showering/swimming. I lead a fairly active lifestyle which includes going to the gym. If that's going to be too much punishment for it due to being jarred/shaken while doing cardio (I jump rope) or simply tossing some weights around, I have no problem with removing it and wearing a cheap $30 Casio that I keep for going to the beach, hiking, etc.

I like the look of the chronograph but I have no need for its function. I likely will not be using it. I don't have one on my current watch and have never wished that I did. I'm only mentioning that cause the functioning/durability of the chronograph has been questioned in many threads that I've read.

This watch is going to cost me approximately US $288 shipped without the servicing. With it, I'm looking at around $400. I can handle that for the peace of mind as I am a worrier. It's stupid but when I'm using my laptop, for example, I'll constantly check the time to see how much battery I have left. So that's to tell you how I obsess over nothing and I don't want to worry about if my watch will stop working in a year or so because I didn't get it serviced. I know that's not a guarantee and other things e.g. springs, can go wrong, but I like knowing I did my best to prevent somewhat preventable errors.

I've read The Zigmeister's description of what his servicing entails. Seems like a ton of work and well worth it. However, paying him $200 plus other associated costs vs paying less up-front by Josh/Andrew doesn't seem to be a smart decision to me if it's for the same service. I'd have no issues sending a watch to him to be serviced after a year though. My issue is that The Zigmeister charges around $200 for only a servicing whereas the afore-mentioned dealers charge around $120 for servicing and waterproofing and I am concerned about what that implies about the quality of said service. Perhaps it's as simple as the fact that they deal in bulk and therefore can offer a lesser rate but perhaps it's more than that and the service is not going to be nearly as thorough (actually, I'm sure this is the case to some extent) or even as poor as a swish and dip.

The only other thread I can find on the topic is this one http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...mp;hl=servicing which doesn't even have any replies.

Any advise as to the quality of servicing these dealers offer? I've seen reviews of their waterproofing but not of oiling, etc. Again, I'd gladly pay for the peace of mind even if the watch might be good for several years without it.

Thank you.

[slay]

if you really believe that your watch will be "serviced" (to a level even CLOSE to what The Zigmeister offers; or serviced at all, while servicing meaning actually opening the watch and putting at least one drop of oil on a jewel and not just eye-ballin with it) if you pay them 120$, you are a fool!

you will get the SAME watch anyone else gets for 120$ less. if it beaks or whatsoever they will tell you "OHHH, how could that happen? me sooo sorry! me send you new watch, okay? but you send me watch first, ok? you pay 20$ for postage to xanchinluaning!"

[olivia]

if you really believe that your watch will be "serviced" (to a level even CLOSE to what The Zigmeister offers; or serviced at all, while servicing meaning actually opening the watch and putting at least one drop of oil on a jewel and not just eye-ballin with it) if you pay them 120$, you are a fool!

you will get the SAME watch anyone else gets for 120$ less. if it beaks or whatsoever they will tell you "OHHH, how could that happen? me sooo sorry! me send you new watch, okay? but you send me watch first, ok? you pay 20$ for postage to xanchinluaning!"

Yep..that sums it up very nicely.

[Jumbie]

Well maybe I am then. Given that these guys have a good reputation from what I've read so far (for delivering their product anyway), I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

However, that is why I thought I'd ask first. I readily admit that I don't have much knowledge of watches having never owned one that cost more than $150. I've always liked Tags and Omegas but I can't afford them so never did much more than glance at them in store windows. I was quite surprised to see The Zigmeister's quotes of what's the going rate for servicing (not his prices but the ones you can find online) cause I never imagined that it could run up to $750 for "just a watch". Even if that watch is an expensive Rolex.

So I'm new to the game and am willing, and trying, to learn. If they are advertising the service to rip off "noobs" like myself, then that's in very poor taste and I will take my business elsewhere (rather than continuing to buy their product without the servicing). Even if I am buying a replica, I still want to deal with someone honest. I haven't read anything about their offered servicing but perhaps someone else on this forum has had experience with it and was willing to share.

If it's bunk, then I'll consider sending it to The Zigmeister for work. But if it's legit, then I'd obviously prefer to spend less on it. To use The Zigmeister's car analogy - if I can buy from the dealer and he oils it up, checks the brakes, etc. for $120 or I could buy it and take it to an aftermarket guy for $200, provided it was the same service, guess which I'd choose. Of course, in real life, I'm sure we all know that the dealer would probably be the one charging more. Hmmn, something for me to consider...

[Jumbie]

Just wanted to quickly add that I typed my reply above to your initial short one which consisted of "If you think they will service your watch for only $120 then you are a fool."

I understand what you're saying and I guess I was just hoping for too much. But again, without asking, one will never know. I've bought stuff in the past for prices that people would never have believed could be legit; yet they were.

[RWG Technical]

No matter what I say, or offer from first hand experience, it's going to sound like a sales pitch and biased...so I'll sit on the sidelines.

If you haven't already, have a read of TTK's response based on first hand experience in country, it's in the 7750 post on servicing watches...

RG

[Edge]

Any "servicing" offers from dealers, are to be taken with a pinch of salt. The dealers in question don't even get the watches in hand before they are shipped to you, so how exactly are they ensuring servicing? How can a dropshipper oversee servicing? They Can't, and anyone who believes this is actually happening, needs to be educated as to the truth.

Sorry, but this is true, plain and simple, they will either plain lie to you, "yeh it's fully serviced yada yada" or best case, they think it's getting serviced, costing them less than $10 and in fact the guy who is doing it, who is in another country, is actually not bothering, and just creaming the cash.

either way you are getting screwed. Save the $120 or $200 or whatever, take it as it is, if something happens to it, or you really want it serviced, send it to someone who is tried and tested in that area, and not someone who is trying to cream as much money off you as humanly possible. especially when that person has NO contact with your actual watch.

Avoid this crap like the plague! Waste of time and money, you'll pay whatever to get it done by them, and then the same again to get it done by someone who actually knows what they are doing.

[Jumbie]

No matter what I say, or offer from first hand experience, it's going to sound like a sales pitch and biased...so I'll sit on the sidelines.

If you haven't already, have a read of TTK's response based on first hand experience in country, it's in the 7750 post on servicing watches...

RG

The Zigmeister, I appreciate that approach. From what I've read of your posts so far though, you seem like an honest individual rather than just someone out to push servicing because it makes you money.

I've just spent a few minutes reading several posts with regards to the dealer's pre-servicing. Apparently not the best idea. Was this thread http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...019&hl=7750 the one you mentioned?

Can I ask you a question? You can PM me a reply if you'd like. Based on your experience in taking apart so many watches, including the Asian 7750b1, what is your honest opinion of the longevity of this watch after getting properly serviced by someone like yourself? I'm not asking for any kind of guarantee, because I understand (if you read my posts above) that things can go wrong due to the mechanical components in the watch or simply due to poor construction. But let's say that there aren't any glaring faults (no more than could be expected from a non-replica watch from a reputable dealer e.g. my $130 Kenneth Cole watch that's been working fine for the last approx. 5 years) in the components of the watch and it's just the fact that the mechanisms haven't been oiled and/or cleaned properly. What can one reasonably expect to achieve in terms of lifetime if the watch is treated properly and not "abused"? Like just for daily wear like I said in my original post. Not wearing it to the gym or for sports, not showering/swimming with it, etc. However, worn every day. Again, based on your evaluation of the watch after having totally disassembled it. And yes, I am quite aware that even the most perfect gen watch could fail due to well...that being life.

I'm not asking for a watch that I can give to my children. Just something that I can expect to last a few years. By that time, I'd be ready for a change in any event.

I wouldn't have a problem getting a watch serviced in that case and have some kind of peace of mind that my watch isn't likely to fail within a year (yes, I know many people have non-serviced 7750s that have been fine for longer than that e.g. By-tor has posted that his Link replica is still going fine without it). But, at the same time, spending $200 to service + $20 return shipping + my cost of shipping to Canada on a watch that's going to cost me $250 from Wo-Mart (provided they have the blue) or $280 from Joshua/Andrew doesn't seem like the best idea if it will reasonably last me a year+. Hell, I could take a chance on that and buy a new one if it fails. If that one also fails in a year though, then I'm behind the game compared with getting it serviced in the first place and having it last 3 years.

I, of course, understand that it's still up to me and no one can definitively tell me "get it serviced cause it will last 5 years" or "a non-serviced watch will last you for 3 years easy" but I'm trying to make a somewhat informed decision based on you guys' experience. You've all been in this "game" a hell of a lot longer than I have (which is around 4 days worth of reading now).

Oh, and I've also read your recommendations to have an Asian 7750 serviced so I guess I know your official stance on that. However, I'd still appreciate an answer to what I've written above with regards to the actual quality of the components and not just the lack of oil and dirtiness if you don't mind.

Finally, for what it's worth, thank you all for helping to educate me. I've now decided that I would surely be a fool to pay for the service from those dealers.

[Jumbie]

I guess I should learn to read better.

You posted in this thread http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...230&hl=7750

Like anything mechanical, with proper care, correct service (clean and lubricated) your Asian 7750 will last a lifetime...

My oldest A7750 is 28 months old, keeps great time, all the chrono functions work as they should, and starts running within a few seconds after I put it on.

It's not so much the movement itself, as the care and upkeep that goes into it.

RG

So I guess that answers my question.

Well sort of. Was that just with one initial service that your watch is running fine at 28 months or is it with multiple seeing that you "only" need to invest your time to service unlike the rest of us who have to pay $200+ and are therefore likely to have a less frequent servicing schedule?

As well, I'm sure you're not wearing this watch all the time like I'm pretty much going to be. Therefore, it obviously sees less wear and tear since it gets to rest sometimes.

So, at the risk of annoying the hell out of everyone with the repetition, do you think that I could reasonable expect to see (barring any other faults) around 3 years of life out of a properly oiled and cleaned Tag Link Chronograph with the Asian 7750 movement if I got it serviced right away? Also, what's your opinion of wearing it for, let's say a month, and then having it serviced? Would that shorten the life as compared with doing it immediately?

Thank you for your time. I'm sure you're busy.

[FxrAndy]

Hi Jumbie, I run, ride a Harley (think vibration) go to the gym, work in the garden and every thing else one can just about think of doing including swimming (not diving more than 3m) in my reps, in particular my Aqua Terras and railmaster. So far i have not had a problem with what i do and my watches. I only have one chrono an IWC porto and i wear that for smarter occasions mostly. Non have been serviced as yet but will be in the future (going ziggys way i hope)

so i think you will have no problem with this

So, at the risk of annoying the hell out of everyone with the repetition, do you think that I could reasonable expect to see (barring any other faults) around 3 years of life out of a properly oiled and cleaned Tag Link Chronograph with the Asian 7750 movement if I got it serviced right away? Also, what's your opinion of wearing it for, let's say a month, and then having it serviced? Would that shorten the life as compared with doing it immediately?

I doubt that wearing it for a month will cause that much trouble either. But if it is working well you would be less likely to send it away once it has found a place on your wrist!

Andy

[Pugwash]

Was that just with one initial service that your watch is running fine at 28 months or is it with multiple seeing that you "only" need to invest your time to service unlike the rest of us who have to pay $200+ and are therefore likely to have a less frequent servicing schedule?

Get watch serviced, wait five years, repeat.

[RWG Technical]

@ jumbie

The watch I quoted as having the older less quality A7750 in it, was serviced only once, when I got it. It gets regular wrist time, probably a day or more a week, every week, I use the heck out of the chrono, and at the 29 month mark now, I put it on, and it starts to run and keeps excellent time...

The latest A7750 is 80% of the astetic fit and finish of the ETA 7750, it has two common problems, 1. loose cannon pin (which I can replace with a genuine ETA one) and 2. loose pallet stones, which I glue in place.

Other than the astetic issues, as far as quality goes, once clean and oiled, the are running fine, and so far, not one has been returned for warranty, not one has been reported as having failed, etc...

So to answer your two specific questions, I think as long as you got the watch serviced within a year of purchse, and once serviced have it done every 5 years, the watch will last a lifetime, in other words, it won't wear out, it could break if you dropped it, but the parts are going to stay as they are due to the clean oil and correct adjustments that are done when it's serviced.

RG

[Jumbie]

Any "servicing" offers from dealers, are to be taken with a pinch of salt. The dealers in question don't even get the watches in hand before they are shipped to you, so how exactly are they ensuring servicing? How can a dropshipper oversee servicing? They Can't, and anyone who believes this is actually happening, needs to be educated as to the truth.

Sorry, but this is true, plain and simple, they will either plain lie to you, "yeh it's fully serviced yada yada" or best case, they think it's getting serviced, costing them less than $10 and in fact the guy who is doing it, who is in another country, is actually not bothering, and just creaming the cash.

either way you are getting screwed. Save the $120 or $200 or whatever, take it as it is, if something happens to it, or you really want it serviced, send it to someone who is tried and tested in that area, and not someone who is trying to cream as much money off you as humanly possible. especially when that person has NO contact with your actual watch.

Avoid this crap like the plague! Waste of time and money, you'll pay whatever to get it done by them, and then the same again to get it done by someone who actually knows what they are doing.

Thanks for this reply Edge. With the background I got in this thread i.e. that the watch is most likely not getting serviced, I spent some time reading various threads on the subject of the dealers. Knowing what drop shipping is, I now understand what you're saying about the servicing when the dealers don't even see the product before shipping. It was my initial impression that they had the stock on hand and therefore access to it.

I've also read the threads on "little white lies" and "challenge to the dealers". I am not impressed by what I've read. I understand that replicas are an illegal business (truthfully, I didn't even know that until a few days ago) but that doesn't mean that customers should be lied to and mislead. With all the different movements, etc. out there, that could so easily happen. If I didn't take the time to read (and I'm sure there's still a ton I don't know), I'd have paid for the servicing or thought I was getting a decent ETA movement instead of the crappy clone.

The "cartel dealers" have lost at least one potential client. That may not be a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but they will not be getting my money at least.

[Jumbie]

Hi Jumbie, I run, ride a Harley (think vibration) go to the gym, work in the garden and every thing else one can just about think of doing including swimming (not diving more than 3m) in my reps, in particular my Aqua Terras and railmaster. So far i have not had a problem with what i do and my watches. I only have one chrono an IWC porto and i wear that for smarter occasions mostly. Non have been serviced as yet but will be in the future (going The Zigmeisters way i hope)

so i think you will have no problem with this

Sounds good to me. The vibrations from the Harley must be a lot to go through.

Still don't think I'm going to be going swimming though.

I doubt that wearing it for a month will cause that much trouble either. But if it is working well you would be less likely to send it away once it has found a place on your wrist!

Andy

heh, you're probably right.

I just wanted to wear it for a while to make sure everything was okay and I indeed liked it. Plus, I guess I'd need to wait for The Zigmeister to have a spot available. Wouldn't want the watch to just be sitting in a box until that time.

Finally, if there is dirt, etc. in the mechanism it doesn't seem like a good idea to me to run it for any length of time. I'd think they extra wear and tear on the parts would shorten the life of the watch as opposed to having it serviced earlier.

[Jumbie]

@ jumbie

The watch I quoted as having the older less quality A7750 in it, was serviced only once, when I got it. It gets regular wrist time, probably a day or more a week, every week, I use the heck out of the chrono, and at the 29 month mark now, I put it on, and it starts to run and keeps excellent time...

The latest A7750 is 80% of the astetic fit and finish of the ETA 7750, it has two common problems, 1. loose cannon pin (which I can replace with a genuine ETA one) and 2. loose pallet stones, which I glue in place.

Other than the astetic issues, as far as quality goes, once clean and oiled, the are running fine, and so far, not one has been returned for warranty, not one has been reported as having failed, etc...

So to answer your two specific questions, I think as long as you got the watch serviced within a year of purchse, and once serviced have it done every 5 years, the watch will last a lifetime, in other words, it won't wear out, it could break if you dropped it, but the parts are going to stay as they are due to the clean oil and correct adjustments that are done when it's serviced.

RG

Thanks for the reply. That goes a long way towards convincing me. Awesome to know that you have a warranty as well.

I think I will definitely go this route in the future if you'll consider accepting me as a client/customer.

Unfortunately, while I'm doing my research at this moment, I won't even be purchasing the watch for at least a month cause I'm not currently at home (I'm out of the country) and will not be for a while. I guess I could order it and have it sent to my sister's in Florida but I also want to be there to receive it and make sure everything's working in case I need to contact the dealer regarding any problems. Then, shortly after that I will be moving to a different State and will need to wait until I get settled with a new address in order for you to have somewhere to return the watch to.

So hopefully we'll be doing some business in the future but that will be all the way around late August. Hmmn, I guess I should consider making an appointment some time before that though. Would that be advisable? I don't know how busy your schedule is i.e. if people generally have to wait some time for you to have an available time slot.

Thanks again.

[Yannou]

Hi you guys,

Nope

I don't know if you have the board agreement for that....

[marrickvilleboy]

if you really believe that your watch will be "serviced" (to a level even CLOSE to what The Zigmeister offers; or serviced at all, while servicing meaning actually opening the watch and putting at least one drop of oil on a jewel and not just eye-ballin with it) if you pay them 120$, you are a fool!

you will get the SAME watch anyone else gets for 120$ less. if it beaks or whatsoever they will tell you "OHHH, how could that happen? me sooo sorry! me send you new watch, okay? but you send me watch first, ok? you pay 20$ for postage to xanchinluaning!"

I really didn't appreciate this line:

"OHHH, how could that happen? me sooo sorry! me send you new watch, okay? but you send me watch first, ok? you pay 20$ for postage to xanchinluaning!"

If you want to make a point then do so in a mannered response, not in condescending tone which I found insulting to asian people. Read the line again and ask yourself if I've raised a valid point.

[narikaa]

Oh dear

[Guest TTK]

Oh dear,oh dear.....!

[EuroTimez]

Well I'm asian (50/50) but I didn't really get offended I just needed to laugh at the saying of SLAY, but I can see that it might offend people. Hopefully and I assume he didn't intended that, slip of the thong.

Well, I read this http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...=7750&st=20 whole thread.

About having an actual realiable watchsmith in Asia is hard to close impossible to have. And I altho I agree for the most part what TTK stated,

""It can't be done......I've been thru about 7-8 Asian "watchsmiths".......and they are NOT reliable......you can give him an Asian 7750 and he'll do a full service.....he'll do that until you place your trust in him.......the next one you give him....might have nothing done to it at all.....they will LIE.......and then they will LIE.......the will buzzsaw thru' corners.......swish and dip is a FULL service compared to what Asian watchsmiths will do.......they are not all bad....I have about 3x good ones......but they are slow....and you defo can't hit them with tens of watches per week....unless you bring him on board specifically to handle your output....and that means higher prices to you guys.......!""

This is alot of times true. BUT I DO NOT AGREE that it "CANNOT BE DONE".

I have it done! I know my postcount may not have any creditility but nonetheless what I'm saying doesn't mean it ain't so until proven otherwise, and I wouldn't mind being put to the test by The Zigmeister or other respected members.

The problem is that you need to find a needle in a haystack. Even most asian aren't that reliable and in some ways slack. This isn't always the case, there are highly qualified chinese/asian workmanship, I mean just look at your REPS! Just look at the beautiful (re) creation these guys can make. If you been to Shenzhen they copyied part of the WORLD -Window of the world- it is called, including the Eiffeltower on a 1;3 scale.

Of course there are alot of Shiitty asian reps out there, if not mainly (1000 to 1) but that doesn't mean that all asian quality is louzy, as that is what comes to mind in alot of close-minded people when you tell them its made in CHina. It is because the asscosiate china with cheap / louzy items (which is for most part true, alot of cheap low quality stuff come from china), but they should think deeper coz at the same time, 90% of all top-grade-electronics also comes from China/Asia think of APPLE IPHONE, LCD SCREENS, FLAT SCREENS, COMPUTER PARTS etc etc and Top-grade RePS!

Again it is just you need to search and you need to know who to deal with, and test them and see if they do a good job. I had a "so-called" realiable watchmaker in Netherland, which ended up braking 2 BCE and installing a simple crown which took him a few months which cost me 300 euro's. I had the same done Servicing 7750 not only in shorter time, less money, but he got the job done.

Well I must say I'm kinda lucky coz I got a chinese Gf and she stays in Guangzhou (where I go regulary) and her dad own's several gens, her dad has a highly qualitified watchmaker who normally does only original brands and who had serviced one of her dad's broken Gen. (YES EVEN IN CHINA YOU CAN BUY GEN' WATCHES, and logically they need to be repaired by qualified ppl not somebody from the side of the street).

According to my GF the watchmaker got a whole "mini lab" and several people working for him, a some sort of dust-free/vacuum room, she described. He very proffesional and he's not one of the cheapest either. He is also centered in a up-scale shopping area, not a side on the street like I see in thailand for instance.

Of course I didn't trusted him straight away, my gf test the watches before-hand and sees if stuff run well etc (otherwise give it back to the factory/supplier no need to service) and there was a Santos 100 chrono that didn't reset well, some probs with the chrono function.

She gave it to the guy, after a few week the watchmaker had it all done and said the Santos 100 chrono had problems and was because of some faulty part which he replaced, and everything worked flawlessly after that. So it's not like he just looks and does nothing on it.

So I let him service all my watches, my rep watches, inluding 7750 watches, they get regulated, cleaned/oiled/supersonic cleaning/put on the testing machine etc/ my GF brings the watches personally to him and he does the job! I even asked him to freeze a few Daytona @ 6 clock for me, because I just love that watch but want a realiable movement. He does it all!

The 7750 to my experience is 50/50 unserviced, but serviced it runs great, I traded a 7750 pre-serviced watch to a friend of mine (after he bought 2x 7750 watches non serviced and ended up failing or keeping bad time) he said that after a week it was 30 sec in the plus -for the whole 7 days so average +6 sec to fast per day- (running to fast) he asked me if this was ok? I said it was excellent!

So stating it cannot be done, i think is a huge overstatement...

AGAIN this is not BS or just talk, if any reputable member wish to put it to the test and grade this watchmaker and his skills I'm open for it! Perhaps The Zigmeister?

[POTR]

Eh, when ETA dries up completely, Sellita (2824, 2892 and 2838) and La Joux-Perret (7750 and 2892A2) will probably be up to speed to fill the need for genuine Swiss... at least genuine Swiss that can't be covered by the newly Chinese owned, Swiss STM Holding (Soprod, SFT, Indtech), which has been gearing up to do their own manual movements for a while now...