RWG Technical Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 I had serviced a HBB a while back, and I never noted any "special" modifications or anything else with the basterdized A7750 (7753) that was inside the watch. There were various posts claiming that the A7750 in the HBB was "special, one of a kind.." or whatever that would not allow a Swiss 7750 to replace it... I am not sure where this false rumour started, or why, but it's false, the A7750 is identical to all the other A7750's we have in our reps... Installing a Swiss in place of the Asian one, would require the same work as replacing the A7750 in say a 188 or 196, full disassembly and swapping of Asian parts to the Swiss movement. I am in the process of installing a Swiss 7750 tricompax movement (not a typo) into this HBB, once done I'll post some pictures. For anyone who was contemplating installing a Swiss 7750 in place of the Asian one, there is NO reason that it can't be done. Sounds like the Choppard rumour of it containing a "special extra modified A7750" when it was only a normal 7750 with the chrono running all the time...no big deal... I wonder where all this misinformation is originating, and more importantly, WHY are these rumours started, is it to justify the price of the watch?? Very strange, as this is two examples of misleading information on movements, in as many weeks, and both were shown to be untrue. What's next? RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahchard Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 interesting...wonder why they don't offer it with swiss movement then... hmm... the plot thickens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 They don't offer it because it would require some rework on a movement (as Ziggy says - mixing and matching parts) as opposed to simply replacing one movement with another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 It is all part of the new hype cycle we are in....Marketing new models as "Ultimate" and "1:1" in order to creep the prices up. I don't mind as much if the fit and finish is upped a notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerthat Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Great to know, The Zigmeister. Keep us updated on the results of the swap. Are you doing any other mods on this particular watch? Thanks, M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMK000 Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 It is all part of the new hype cycle we are in....Marketing new models as "Ultimate" and "1:1" in order to creep the prices up. I don't mind as much if the fit and finish is upped a notch. Fully agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyndonville Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 They ought to sell the shell of the watch as a kit and then we could plant a real movement in it. I've written this before, but, I'll never understand how some mfg'er can put all the fine work into that HHB and then he has to put a POS movement in it like the A7750. As the watch sits it's an all show and no go watch. You pay four or five hundred bucks for it and then if you have any cash left over you contact Rob to see if he has the time to make it right. Not sure what that would cost, but, assurdly you're going to fork over two or three hundred more. Hey, maybe even more, I have no clue. Not sure what the big deal is about that watch anyhow. Even in TZ I've seen guys slam it because it's a copy of a copy of a copy of something else. How original!!! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new & improved osteopath Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Wouldnt a 7753 drop right in then?? -O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovepanerai Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 They ought to sell the shell of the watch as a kit and then we could plant a real movement in it. I've written this before, but, I'll never understand how some mfg'er can put all the fine work into that HHB and then he has to put a POS movement in it like the A7750. As the watch sits it's an all show and no go watch. You pay four or five hundred bucks for it and then if you have any cash left over you contact Rob to see if he has the time to make it right. Not sure what that would cost, but, assurdly you're going to fork over two or three hundred more. Hey, maybe even more, I have no clue. Not sure what the big deal is about that watch anyhow. Even in TZ I've seen guys slam it because it's a copy of a copy of a copy of something else. How original!!! Tim you can ask The Zigmeister the Asian 7750 28.800 is a great movement as long as it is oiled and serviced properly - the same is actually true for the Swiss 7750 when installed by the replica makers, since I had some that had the same issue than the Asian 7750 (slipping hands, etc.) Wouldnt a 7753 drop right in then?? -O no the date wheel on the 7753 is different and the date cut out on the dial would have to be in a slightly different position - the same is true for Asian PAM 196s, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 There is another problem with fitting a 7753, that is the movement thickness. The Asian model had an extra front plate with the transfer gears on, the 7753 has these gears within the regular plate. Therefore the Asian is thicker. THis means the crown would not line up unless you fitted a spacer in fron of your 7753 which rather defeats the purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 I wonder where all this misinformation is originating, and more importantly, WHY are these rumours started, is it to justify the price of the watch?? I believe....yes...but not from the dealers but from the buyers in justification/celebration of how much they have spent. Some of this is pretty classic adolescent hyperbole. "Yeah, but my watch has an extra super special.....etc". We all tend to jump around like the man-apes in the movie 2001 whenever a new watch lands, dancing around it, touching it, rubbing it.....and the suppliers have really hit on a brilliant marketing ploy here. They have increased their costs and technical investment about 5% and in the case of the HBB, doubled the price. I've posted several times, the Cousteau Diver is not unique in it's fidelity of reproduction,...it a very good-excellent rep...but nothing intrinsic in its' quality of materials or manufacture to justify it costing 25% more than other similar rep chronographs. You don't go buy a car with adolescent egerness. Jumping around like a bunch of monkeys either in anticipation of or when a new watch hits the market only lets the seller know he can profit on the desireability factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchman12345 Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 The Asian 7750 is not a piece of [censored] movement. Its getting annoying people saying it is all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 They don't offer it as a Swiss movement, because they would have 2 choices: 1. Install a Swiss 7753, which is probably close to impossible to source anymore, or 2. Make the Swiss 7750 into a basterdized 7753, which requires total disassembly, and installing an Asian longer post second wheel, and all the other stuff to make into a 7753 layout. From my hands on experience servicing the A7750, I have to say again, it is a very good movement, and once clean and oiled correctly, works as well as the Swiss 7750. I have not had one new 28.8k A7750 returned for warranty since the model came out over a year ago, not one report of failure or problems, no problems at all... So the A7750 in my book is a great movement, it works and keeps on working... Now I have to see if I can make the Swiss Tri-Compax 7750 I have work in this HBB. This movement is a 7750 base, with extra gears added to make it like a 7753 layout, ie the 30 minute counter is at "3" not "12". HOWEVER this movement has a big problem, All the ETA series are the same thickness, 7.90mm, even the 7753. The problem I have, is that this Tri-Compax model, uses the same design as the Asian one, and because of this, it's thicker, so much so, that the second and 12 hour hand posts are below the movement face, and very far below the dial face, in other words, it needs to be upgraded with longer posts...no problem right? Wrong. Since the ETA 7750 series are all the same thickness, it stands to reason that they dont' produce gears with longer posts, no reason to... So I have to search and find a second and 12 hour gear with longer posts from my spare Asian 7750's... Yes, the A7750 that is installed in the HBB right now has longer posts, so your saying, "Why not use those..." well it seems when the A7750 28.8k was made, they changed the design and now the A7750 gears DON"T fit on the ETA...the old A7750 gears were interchangeable, but the new ones are NOT interchangeable... So now you know what my day is going to consist of, digging through old movements trying to find parts to make this Swiss 7750 (7753) work... Stay tuned, if I get it done, I'll post a review.... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 They don't offer it because it would require some rework on a movement (as The Zigmeister says - mixing and matching parts) as opposed to simply replacing one movement with another. That hasn't stopped them in the past. The first 'seconds @ 6' Rolex Daytona reps used a re-worked ETA Valjoux 7750 with aftermarket transfer gears added on. The 100% Asian movement version of that watch didn't appear until some time later, and that was after The Zigmeister doubting that the same mods applied to the Asian 7750 of the time would be reliable. He was (for the most part) right!! A newer, better constructed A7750 was the indirect result!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaedo Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 I have not had one new 28.8k A7750 returned for warranty since the model came out over a year ago, not one report of failure or problems, no problems at all... So the A7750 in my book is a great movement, it works and keeps on working... RG One question with that though The Zigmeister, with proper servicing will it last 50 years like the Swiss gens or in 10 years time it be worn out? I sure hope so, or there will be a lot of paperwights around us in the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 One question with that though Ziggy, with proper servicing will it last 50 years like the Swiss gens or in 10 years time it be worn out? I sure hope so, or there will be a lot of paperwights around us in the future... Properly cleaned and oiled watches dont' wear out, no matter how old they are... The only thing that does wear out is the mainspring, and if you read my 1893 Elgin restoration, you can see that a mainspring from 114 years ago is available today, I think the same will be said of the ETA parts that fit into the Asian 7750... Clean and oil every 5 years, is the only insurance you need. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted May 19, 2007 Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 Properly cleaned and oiled watches dont' wear out, no matter how old they are... ...and improperly oiled and dirty watches stop...which equals no more wear!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 ...and improperly oiled and dirty watches stop...which equals no more wear!!!! True, but what about the wear before they finally stopped working... RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 True, but what about the wear before they finally stopped working... RG Is wear due to dirt accumulation and lack of lubrication the primary source of internal damage?? I would think corrosion due to moisture infiltration would be the most common source of damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 Is wear due to dirt accumulation and lack of lubrication the primary source of internal damage?? I would think corrosion due to moisture infiltration would be the most common source of damage. Lack of lube due to none being there in the first place, and lack of lube from it drying out. Very limited corrosion on watches, if there is corrosion, it's normally limited to the keyless works, unless it's been imersed and water got in everywhere. I see no to little damage from moisture inflitration, most of the problems are none, or dried up oils and greases. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 Well bad news on the Tri-Compax 7750 I got as a replacement for this watch. As I stated earlier, this is a Swiss 7750, with the same modifications as our Asian ones to make it into a 7753 layout, problem is, they didn't make new gears, so the posts for the 12 and running seconds hands are way below the dial face, which means I can't install the subdial hands. I have done Asian to Swiss 7750 swaps in the past, but on this one, for whatever reason, it's not possible. The problem is with the second gear and the tilting pinion which drives the chrono. After 4 hours of multiple disassemblies and assemblies, with various Asian parts, trying to find a combination that works, I have not had any success... I did get the chrono to work, but when it's reset, the whole movement comes to a grinding halt... There must be a subtle difference between the gears that when the chrono is Reset (not OFF as it works in this position) the gears jam up. So as it stands, it's a no-go with this particular Swiss 7750...need to put it aside, and see if maybe I can figure out something... Ah the fun and frolic of doing these mods. Wish me luck. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 As an aside, the genuine HBB doesn't use a 7753. As unusual as it sounds, they've gone for a Hublot-modified 7750, much like the Tri-Compax Asian 7750. So, if you were to fit a 7753 in this watch, it wouldn't make it any closer to genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 Would I be right in thinking that this watch was something else that the Cartel have mis-represented? PMing you on another issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 PM's not working, so I'll post the question here... I was trying to regulate my SMP, and it suddenly died on me. All I touched was the regulating arm of the movement, and it simply stopped (the same problem I had with trying to regulate my other Omegas) I can't think of anything I've done that would have damaged the movement, and the spring still seems in place. I'm not going to let this put me off learning more about mechanical watches, and, although I'm annoyed at myself that it has also died, I just wish I knew what I had actually done, so I could be sure not to repeat the mistake, but all I've done, is moved the regulating arm... Can you make any suggestions? Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted May 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 Well after another 2 hours at the bench, I finally got the Swiss 7750 working...hands and dial installed to see if it's keeping good time... Just when you think you have something figured out, they throw me a curve ball. After modifying some parts, it seems as if I fixed the problem with the tilting pinion. So hopefully tomorrow it will be keeping accurate time, and still running. @teejay The only possible reason is that you moved the beat arm instead of the regulator one. If the beat arm is moved, and the beat is out (only way to check beat is with an analyzer) then the movement will stop running. RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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