ETA Calibre Valgranges in replicas?

[RWG Technical]

I have an asian price list and movement catalogue at home, someone posted a link to the company, and I contacted them for pricing...

I was shocked, to say the least...6497 movements for $10 or so...

I'll have to dig it up, and post the pictures and pricing, it's shocking to say the least. Meaning very reasonable prices, for quality movements. Bring on the Chinese, the next "Made in Japan" leaders.

RG

[JWR]

Come on Jonathan some Valgranges have chronograph function...obviously there is some resemblance but it is closer to 28XX ETA than to the Valjoux

Is a ship justa large car without wheels????

Oh Gran...... from the ETA press release on the introduction of Valgranges:

From Valjoux to Valgranges

A select origin entails a special obligation for excellence. The Valgranges calibre is indeed of high-ranking birth. Its name shows at a glance that it was conceived along the lines of the famous Valjoux calibre. Designed in 1973 in the Vall

[FxrAndy]

I have an asian price list and movement catalogue at home, someone posted a link to the company, and I contacted them for pricing...

I was shocked, to say the least...6497 movements for $10 or so...

I'll have to dig it up, and post the pictures and pricing, it's shocking to say the least. Meaning very reasonable prices, for quality movements. Bring on the Chinese, the next "Made in Japan" leaders.

RG

if you can get ST18s for less than cousins i would be up for a couple!

[geo1nah2a]

I have an asian price list and movement catalogue at home, someone posted a link to the company, and I contacted them for pricing...

I was shocked, to say the least...6497 movements for $10 or so...

I'll have to dig it up, and post the pictures and pricing, it's shocking to say the least. Meaning very reasonable prices, for quality movements. Bring on the Chinese, the next "Made in Japan" leaders.

RG

I was looking for a balance 721 of a 6497.. CousinsUK answered "apologies, product obsolete/discontinued".. Maybe I should have a closer look at the pictures you will be posting.. 10$ for a chinese donor maybe? I'll have 10 and perform various experiments on them! If only they deliver this low quantities..

[t]

The 7750 in the Chopard XL was billed as a Valgranges copy.

Isn't the Valgranges just a 7750 with a bigger diameter and larger datewheel and the chrono functions removed?

7750 without chono has app. 31mm and valgranges app. 36mm like Unitas. Valjoux is 13lignes and Valgranges 16lignes

i hope i don

[gran]

Oh Gran...... from the ETA press release on the introduction of Valgranges:

From Valjoux to Valgranges

A select origin entails a special obligation for excellence. The Valgranges calibre is indeed of high-ranking birth. Its name shows at a glance that it was conceived along the lines of the famous Valjoux calibre. Designed in 1973 in the Vall

[freddy333]

These new calibres look very interesting, indeed. But I agree with Ziggy's doomsday predictions regarding ETAs and their spares. I have a feeling that in 2 years time we will be musing about how wonderful it was to fit a rep watch with a nice, reliable Swiss-made ETA movement and then to be able to keep it running with relatively accessible spares from a number of sources (ofrei, cousins, etc.). But I am just as sure that once the supply begins to impact the Chinese markets, some clever individual or shop will come up with another movement to fill the void, and it will most likely be just as good and made in China. In fact, I can see a day when 'China Made' will become the new 'Swiss Made'.

[Guest TTK]

The days of reps with ETA 28xx series mov'ts is rapidly coming to a close now.....I've just taken delivery of a Seamaster...fitted with a Sellita SW200 mov't....same movt they are using in Invictas...and many other mid to higher price watches...it's Swiss...and my supplier tells me that more and more will be used instead of ETA.....he also told me that they had some QC problems in the beginning but have ironed them out now...so much so that he is offering a 1yr warranty with the rep......don't look at me....but that's what I'm told........!

Nice sweep...25j.....anti-mag shield.....and serviceable.....!

OMEGA 2531.80

[RWG Technical]

I have worked on a number of SW200's over the past year, and they are indeed very nice.

But the parts although looking like an ETA, are not interchangeable.

RG

[Logan]

If you take a good look at the Valgranges movements and read the literature they are just 7750's. The basic timekeeping and chronograph mechanism's are to all intents identical, and the same size. The only parts scaled up are the counter weight and the front plate which in turn allows a larger date wheel to fit todays monster watches.

Even the models parallel the current 775x range. There is a base, gmt, chrono, and chrono-gmt just like the present 7750-7754.

The movement currently used in the Chopard is basically a valgranges copy complete with larger front plate and large date wheel.

We don't need to wait for valgranges copy's, they are already here and will be prolific very quickly.

[olivia]

I have worked on a number of SW200's over the past year, and they are indeed very nice.

But the parts although looking like an ETA, are not interchangeable.

RG

Is that no parts are interchangable or that some parts are not interchangable?

[RWG Technical]

Is that no parts are interchangable or that some parts are not interchangable?

I have not had the time to try each and every part, but those that I did try, did not fit...so based on that, I think they are not interchangeable.

RG

[Guest TTK]

@ The Zigmeister.....interchangeabiility isn't the problem...we need to look at the Sellita mov'ts as an alternative .........with the continuing restriction of parts availability for ETA that won't matter...what will matter is that ALL the members here and elsewhere who are scooping up ETA's will NOT have access to parts....or will at a price.....you yourself are already hoarding ETA parts.......I'd rather have MY rep fitted with a good quality mov't which has a readily available parts supply......bearing in mind that ..... as the Sellita becomes more popular and a greater number of manufacturers begin to use it as a base ebauche........companies like Ofrei etc will commence stocking parts for the Sellita if indeed parts are not available directly from the manufacturer.....Sellita.....personally I'm glad to see a Swiss competitor.

BTW....some companies...( not all )....who are already using Sellita SW200 ebauche as base.....Sellita are jointly developing alternatives to ETA with La Joux Perret......so I think we have nothing tp fear from the loss of ETA......!

Anonimo

Invicta

Meistersinger

Marcello C. Nettuno

Maurice Lacroix

Oris

Wenger

British Masters

Benefiting from the current favourable economic situation, and at the price of a severe rationalization of its production tool, La Joux-Perret has made a qualitative and quantitative jump in only a few years, passing from a workforce of some 60 employees to over 150 today, of which 35 are qualified watchmakers.

In reality, La Joux-Perret has become a veritable and integrated manufacture, mastering the chain of production, from design concept and development to the integral production of mechanical movements. Overall, ETA movements or clones, which are assembled, personalized, or equipped with additional modules by La Joux-Perret, make up about 50 percent of the company’s activity. As an example, we can cite the many versions based upon the automatic Valjoux 7750 Chronograph: GMT, date indicated in a window or by a hand, Bi-compax, Tri-compax, dual-time, power reserve, or even the flyback models. Another ETA calibre giving rise to many versions and personalized models is the automatic 2892A2 ‘tractor’, which is also used as a ‘platform’ for many other variations.

Sellita is quite close to another company, La Joux-Perret (formerly Jaquet), which was its ally in voicing opposition to ETA’s decision to suspend deliveries of its movement blanks. The two companiess have “divided up the tasks,” explains Fr

Edited June 28, 2007 by TTK

[freddy333]

Makes sense to me.

[gran]

If you take a good look at the Valgranges movements and read the literature they are just 7750's. The basic timekeeping and chronograph mechanism's are to all intents identical, and the same size. The only parts scaled up are the counter weight and the front plate which in turn allows a larger date wheel to fit todays monster watches.

Even the models parallel the current 775x range. There is a base, gmt, chrono, and chrono-gmt just like the present 7750-7754.

The movement currently used in the Chopard is basically a valgranges copy complete with larger front plate and large date wheel.

We don't need to wait for valgranges copy's, they are already here and will be prolific very quickly.

I guess I was in error regarding how unique the Valgranges movements are compared to a 7750 ....I was hoping the Valgranges was an improvement not just a change in size .....would be fun if The Zigmeister could take one apart and give us a rundown

@Logan

could you elaborate on the "We don't need to wait for valgranges copy's, they are already here and will be prolific very quickly". Is your point that its just a matter of size?

[RWG Technical]

@ Ziggy.....interchangeabiility isn't the problem...we need to look at the Sellita mov'ts as an alternative .........

I agree. My comment on the interchangeability with ETA was a statement, just to clarify that the Sellita is not an ETA.

Sellita is a great alternative and I just hope the watch supply houses realize this, and start supplying the movements and stocking the parts. With ETA getting out of the business so to speak, we are going to have alternatives, I too would chose a current available movement vs one in limited supply.

My stock of parts are for my own use.

The future looks brighter, I'll take a new supported movement over a limited supply one any day...

RG

[Guest TTK]

@The Zigmeister.....I understood your post....and wasn't being critical...I'm merely pointing out that in an ideal world ..it would be great if the SW200 had complete interchangeability with the 2824.....but that would defeat the steps that ETA are implementing...so whilst it may be a 'clone'....as will the others that follow.....their DNA isn't absolutely identical.....but it's kinda exciting that at least there are moves afoot to combat the ETA situation......not least from the Swiss industry itself.....and of course with China hot on the heels.......we are going to see some very interesting developments......especially in the rarified atmosphere of 'grand complications'....as Grun pointed out......Seagull have released their tourbillon and are releasing 'alarms' and 'minute repeaters'....with other complications no doubt following.

In the meantime...if the Sellita mov'ts make their way into reps....great......BTW nice looking mov't......I'll post some photos of it later.

regards

Neil

[RWG Technical]

I did not take it as being critcal, I just think there is misunderstanding that the Sellita is a copy of an ETA, and therefore the ETA parts will fit... it isn't a copy, and none of the ETA parts fit. People need to be clear on that part.

Seagull make amazing movements, how many Venus 175 copies do you hear failing...none...they are great (much to the demise of watchmakers... )

It's going to be interesting times, out with the old and in with the new. If were aware of the void ETA is leaving, I am sure some really smart Chinese businessmen are also aware of it, and stepping up to fill the void. This may be the second time the Swiss get their leiderhosen snapped off by the Asian's...yoddel hea he ho...

RG

[Logan]

@Gunnar

The point was that its not difficult for the chinese who make most of our movements to make copies of the valgranges using mostly the same parts as the current 7750 asian. The movement in the Chopard seems to be exactly that based on the teardown that The Zigmeister (I think it was him?) did a few weeks back showing the larger front plate and date wheel. Making the same movement with all the chrono parts in place won't be much tougher.

[Pugwash]

The point was that its not difficult for the chinese who make most of our movements to make copies of the valgranges using mostly the same parts as the current 7750 asian. The movement in the Chopard seems to be exactly that based on the teardown that The Zigmeister (I think it was him?) did a few weeks back showing the larger front plate and date wheel. Making the same movement with all the chrono parts in place won't be much tougher.

I thought the Chopard rep with the Valgranges copy was the non-chrono.

The chrono doesn't look much like a 7750:

http://www.swisstime.ch/products/ProductsR...ctRelated_id=73

[FxrAndy]

I thought the Chopard rep with the Valgranges copy was the non-chrono.

The chrono doesn't look much like a 7750:

http://www.swisstime.ch/products/ProductsR...ctRelated_id=73

Actually from that pic it does, look at the chrono actuating arms, they are set inboard with what looks like extensions to operate them from the outer edge of the base plate.

[Logan]

@Pugwash

Yes thats what my posts said, the Chopard has the non-chrono version of the movement.

The valgranges range includes chrono and non-chrono version of the movements

FXRAndy is correct, the movement is nothing more than a 7750 with a larger base plate, and extenders to the chrono actuator to reach the outside. Download the hi-res pictures and study them if you don't believe me. Even the ETA literature states that.

Edited June 28, 2007 by Logan