lanikai Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 It might comfort you to know that you've been invisible to me for quite some time now.....! AAAAHHHH ... then there is a God ... TTK you've just restored my faith in mankind... by the way who are you ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 FYI ..... i did not read enzo's post before posting my last ,... about Advertising and Marketing... so others must be thinking the same.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Monetary gain is one of those things that can kill a hobby ... This comes from someone who tried to sell socalled "conversion" kits with stem winder Angelus movements - that required an aditional 2.000$ of work - for TOP dollars...! I wont even go into it any further, before you start crying again...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 I have just read the whole story. and now I am smoking a cigarrette, and I am thinking about how hard it is to get a replica watch preoperly serviced. No doubt about The Zigmeister work, he is the best at it but he is also very busy so maybe he is not right avalaible when you want him... I have a local watch maker working for me, the bad thing is that you have to constantly educate him about rep issues, and he is always complaining about spacer rings, date wheels and so on.. now my friend vmena is educating himslef and buying watch tools, so in the end he sure will know a lot bout watches.. I migthy say this hobby can turn into something very addictive but you will have to compensate family and watch hobby.. regards, Manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Quit job, divorced, and threw kids out. Plenty of time for RWG now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGMAN Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Hey guys, I don't post on this forum very much....but I'm really surprised at this thread. We all enjoy the same hobby which I might add isn't exactly legal....and yet we seem to be blasting our Modders and other forum members. I'm all about using the forum to make sure everybody stays honest.....but I think this thread is going overboard. I am reading this book called Practical Watch Repairing by Donald de Carle. Last night I flipped to the appendix and saw a section called "A Standard of Workmanship"......funny...because the last point the author makes applies to this thread....I wanted to share it with everyone: "Finally, do not run down another horologist's work, even if it leaves something to be desired. If the condition of a movement is in question, treat the matter diplomatically; describe what you can do to improve it, do not give an opinion that somebody else has done a poor job. Be prepared to stand by your own results; that is your reward." Pg 314 If you haven't had the opportunity to read this book, I would suggest it. That is my 2 cents... FROGMAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 I'm on page 10 - great book! Am now accepting orders for all watch modding and repair at competitive rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Hey guys, I don't post on this forum very much....but I'm really surprised at this thread. We all enjoy the same hobby which I might add isn't exactly legal....and yet we seem to be blasting our Modders and other forum members. I'm all about using the forum to make sure everybody stays honest.....but I think this thread is going overboard. I am reading this book called Practical Watch Repairing by Donald de Carle. Last night I flipped to the appendix and saw a section called "A Standard of Workmanship"......funny...because the last point the author makes applies to this thread....I wanted to share it with everyone: "Finally, do not run down another horologist's work, even if it leaves something to be desired. If the condition of a movement is in question, treat the matter diplomatically; describe what you can do to improve it, do not give an opinion that somebody else has done a poor job. Be prepared to stand by your own results; that is your reward." Pg 314 If you haven't had the opportunity to read this book, I would suggest it. That is my 2 cents... FROGMAN If you are reffering to the pics... I take sole responsibility for whatever you are thinking.... before you past judgment on the person who took the pics or the modder in question ... remember it is "my" watch that was involved.. there is a fine line between understanding and being misunderstood.... if you want to think that the pics were done for self elevation ...that's up to you ... if you want to think that the pics were revealed because for about a week this thread was conjecture , heresay, and no concrete proof that anything that was being said had any validation, that to is an option If this thread had lived a short life then this would not have come to fruition.... but it did not and I was ready to take whatever was dished out so no one else would be dragged into this.. because it was my "battle" so to speak... but hind sight is 20/20.. so with that said.. everyone for a long time has been in this issue .. weather we or I knew it or not. this would be good diplomacy(quote from the book) and the person who posted the pics has shown this very attribute before things got way out of hand.. I am just trying to give you all the information you need (not to sway you) so you can hypothesis weather what was done was "necessary" and not done for self appreciation ... that's my half cents.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 You people are still here??? J/K... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 You people are still up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Hey guy's... yeh finished at the gym late and my cigar is taking it's time... PAM 124... so I won't be off topic.. gotta be up at 12 am it's 6 p now so talk to everyone in the am.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Hey guy's... yeh finished at the gym late and my cigar is taking it's time... PAM 124... so I won't be off topic.. Glad you mentioned that last thing. TT and I are watching you guys very carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Glad you mentioned that last thing. TT and I are watching you guys very carefully. hah... thought i went away... ... i know you would have the last word .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGMAN Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 If you are reffering to the pics... I take sole responsibility for whatever you are thinking.... before you past judgment on the person who took the pics or the modder in question ... remember it is "my" watch that was involved.. there is a fine line between understanding and being misunderstood.... if you want to think that the pics were done for self elevation ...that's up to you ... if you want to think that the pics were revealed because for about a week this thread was conjecture , heresay, and no concrete proof that anything that was being said had any validation, that to is an option If this thread had lived a short life then this would not have come to fruition.... but it did not and I was ready to take whatever was dished out so no one else would be dragged into this.. because it was my "battle" so to speak... but hind sight is 20/20.. so with that said.. everyone for a long time has been in this issue .. weather we or I knew it or not. this would be good diplomacy(quote from the book) and the person who posted the pics has shown this very attribute before things got way out of hand.. I am just trying to give you all the information you need (not to sway you) so you can hypothesis weather what was done was "necessary" and not done for self appreciation ... that's my half cents.. Lanikai, I wasn't "calling you out" by posting my comments. You have the right to post your opinion and to defend your position. That is the great thing about our forums....open talk about EVERYTHING. Also, I'm not asking you or anyone to take responsibility for the pictures....they are posted....what's done is done. I was hoping that my comment would be taken to heart and not turned into anything else other than that. The old watchmaker that wrote the book had a lot of knowledge and was willing to share it with whoever would listen.....I thought I'd pass that along. That is all, FROGMAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Lanikai, I wasn't "calling you out" by posting my comments. You have the right to post your opinion and to defend your position. That is the great thing about our forums....open talk about EVERYTHING. Also, I'm not asking you or anyone to take responsibility for the pictures....they are posted....what's done is done. I was hoping that my comment would be taken to heart and not turned into anything else other than that. The old watchmaker that wrote the book had a lot of knowledge and was willing to share it with whoever would listen.....I thought I'd pass that along. That is all, FROGMAN No Frogman.. believe me I never took it as you calling me out.... but I'm sure the person who authored the book was not on a forum like the RWG .. this is what i meant about fine line from being understood and misunderstod.. because you cannot hear the inflection in a persons voice and can only read the vibes from the wording ... i believe that's why a lot of communications goes misunderstood on the internet. i was just making an"attempt to add" information .. your are right... this is a place where we should be able to trade information .. good and bad .. freely.. only in this case personalities were greatly involve... feelings were inevitably hurt and emotions were evident... Horologist are like any select society ..(the olderones anyway) ... they are their own culture in a sense. In hindsight I should of added a "thank you for passing that along, I'm sure we will find it useful", I am still in the "i take responsibility mode" so excuse me if I offended you ... One story: I worked in a if you will,...(i was the bar Manager) fine dining restaraunt and the executive chef ... Chef Nick, was one of the best in the business in Hawaii... well, the new owner a Nuero sergeon came in one day and tried to change everything.. nothing he was saying was making any sense ... chef Nick asked him,"what makes you think you know about the Restaraunt business",... to which the doctor relied.."I read a book" ... so the next day chef Nick sees the doctor come in and say's,.."take the day off , I will do your surgery today"... and the doctor looked appauld and said,"what makes you think you can perform sergery"... and chef Nick say's.."because I read a book" ... true story.. Moral is the book may be very good if and when that particular circumstance arises .. but i guess drastic situations sometimes call for drstic measures... Again Frogman just another opinion I have not nor do I wish you to take it personally.... actually I need to work on my presentation as far as choice of words for the internet ... when I think i am being tactful i need to review my writings...LOL Thank you keep sharing your opinions ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 I feel it safe to say this post is about done.. In closing this .. i need to note that without the dealer supplying me with a new dial and hands, I would have been forced to purchase a new watch if i wanted to make use of Lello's Date wheel and CT's mag..and Kruzers gen. crown and i must add that I did not have to pay for them..this is to give credit where credit is due and so no one thinks otherwise.. i did not reveal to Joshua the why's and the Who .. none of the details.. but asked if I could purchase the dial and hands and CG ..he said he would send them to me at no charge.. they arrived yesterday via express courier.. I feel compeled to write a review of my dealings with Joshua and Andrew in the dealer review section .. I have been dealing with both for over a year now ... well, I know some have strong opinions when it comes to dealers ... so with that said.. I guess more shall be revealed.. just so the other side of the dealers can be seen also.. not to disagree with anyone else opinions The on going Saga of....... As the Minute Wheel Turns ..... thank you ...........lanikai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Lanikai- Glad you were able to get the parts. Can't wait to see the finished product. My 63 should be back in the next 24 hours. And with that the matched set will be put to bed. Aloha! (or does that mean hello?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) I appreciate that this issue is resolved, but I just wanted to quickly add something. Having read this quote from taken from a book, "Finally, do not run down another horologist's work, even if it leaves something to be desired. If the condition of a movement is in question, treat the matter diplomatically; describe what you can do to improve it, do not give an opinion that somebody else has done a poor job. Be prepared to stand by your own results; that is your reward." Pg 314 I cannot think of any more potentially harmful advice possible. Sure, it's nice to live in a world where everyone gets on with everyone else 100% of the time, and that no one ever has cause to complain about anything, but to be honest, that kind of "rose-tinted" attitude, frankly, makes me want to puke my gizzards up. I view horologists as artisans. Artists, craftsmen. As such, and, particularly if they are performing a professional service and being paid for their time, then their work, just like that of any other artist will be subject to scrutiny, critique, and either praise or criticism. Without refering to any specific situation, I don't feel saying to someone, if dissatisfied with their work "Your work sucks!" is particularly constructive. However, a comment like "Could you take another look at X detail, please?" would be a more subtle way of going about it between client and professional. I would also apply a similar standard, to someone viewing work presented. For example, someone says "Check out my new X Job, it's freaking awesome!", but upon scrutiny, say the work is actually substandard, informing them of that, though it might initially hurt feelings, might give them the opportunity to ask the artist responsible to take another look at the X Job, particularly the Y Details, which otherwise, they might be blissfully unaware of having received a less than perfect service. Sure, as long as they are happy, that is all that matters, but, if they are unaware that Z detail might constitute a poor job, then they are only happy through ignorance, in which case it is only fair they be told. Indeed, with the spirit of the text, deliberately bad-mouthing another artist's work is bad form, but pointing out a legitimate flaw, by providing constructive criticism, it enables the client to truly get the product they want, and, brings the artist's attention to something that they might not have been personally aware of either, so gives them the opportunity to learn and grow as an artist. Again, that's not with relation to any mentioned scenario, just my .2c reaction to the text in the book... Edited August 23, 2007 by TeeJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Lanikai- Glad you were able to get the parts. Can't wait to see the finished product. My 63 should be back in the next 24 hours. And with that the matched set will be put to bed. Aloha! (or does that mean hello?) thanks kruzer, i definately will have to post pics ...(first time I heard myself say that?) ..LOL Lucky your on the east coast... my 63 is taking the trip to Z in October since you asked...... AlOHA= 'Alo' in the root word means {in your spiritual presence.} and... 'Ha' = The breath of life.. WE REALLY DO TAKE BREATHING FOR GRANTED.. so when I say aloha... i am actually wishing you ...the breath of life ... interestingly enough the American Native Tribes also have ...HA to stand for the same thing LIVE STRONG AND WEAR IT WELL..... LANIKAI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGMAN Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 No Frogman.. believe me I never took it as you calling me out.... but I'm sure the person who authored the book was not on a forum like the RWG .. this is what i meant about fine line from being understood and misunderstod.. because you cannot hear the inflection in a persons voice and can only read the vibes from the wording ... i believe that's why a lot of communications goes misunderstood on the internet. i was just making an"attempt to add" information .. your are right... this is a place where we should be able to trade information .. good and bad .. freely.. only in this case personalities were greatly involve... feelings were inevitably hurt and emotions were evident... Horologist are like any select society ..(the olderones anyway) ... they are their own culture in a sense. In hindsight I should of added a "thank you for passing that along, I'm sure we will find it useful", I am still in the "i take responsibility mode" so excuse me if I offended you ... One story: I worked in a if you will,...(i was the bar Manager) fine dining restaraunt and the executive chef ... Chef Nick, was one of the best in the business in Hawaii... well, the new owner a Nuero sergeon came in one day and tried to change everything.. nothing he was saying was making any sense ... chef Nick asked him,"what makes you think you know about the Restaraunt business",... to which the doctor relied.."I read a book" ... so the next day chef Nick sees the doctor come in and say's,.."take the day off , I will do your surgery today"... and the doctor looked appauld and said,"what makes you think you can perform sergery"... and chef Nick say's.."because I read a book" ... true story.. Moral is the book may be very good if and when that particular circumstance arises .. but i guess drastic situations sometimes call for drstic measures... Again Frogman just another opinion I have not nor do I wish you to take it personally.... actually I need to work on my presentation as far as choice of words for the internet ... when I think i am being tactful i need to review my writings...LOL Thank you keep sharing your opinions ... I misunderstood your comment then....for that I am sorry. I really hope you get everything worked out. I do wish you all the luck! I appreciate that this issue is resolved, but I just wanted to quickly add something. Having read this quote from taken from a book, "Finally, do not run down another horologist's work, even if it leaves something to be desired. If the condition of a movement is in question, treat the matter diplomatically; describe what you can do to improve it, do not give an opinion that somebody else has done a poor job. Be prepared to stand by your own results; that is your reward." Pg 314 I cannot think of any more potentially harmful advice possible. Sure, it's nice to live in a world where everyone gets on with everyone else 100% of the time, and that no one ever has cause to complain about anything, but to be honest, that kind of "rose-tinted" attitude, frankly, makes me want to puke my gizzards up. I view horologists as artisans. Artists, craftsmen. As such, and, particularly if they are performing a professional service and being paid for their time, then their work, just like that of any other artist will be subject to scrutiny, critique, and either praise or criticism. Without refering to any specific situation, I don't feel saying to someone, if dissatisfied with their work "Your work sucks!" is particularly constructive. However, a comment like "Could you take another look at X detail, please?" would be a more subtle way of going about it between client and professional. I would also apply a similar standard, to someone viewing work presented. For example, someone says "Check out my new X Job, it's freaking awesome!", but upon scrutiny, say the work is actually substandard, informing them of that, though it might initially hurt feelings, might give them the opportunity to ask the artist responsible to take another look at the X Job, particularly the Y Details, which otherwise, they might be blissfully unaware of having received a less than perfect service. Sure, as long as they are happy, that is all that matters, but, if they are unaware that Z detail might constitute a poor job, then they are only happy through ignorance, in which case it is only fair they be told. Indeed, with the spirit of the text, deliberately bad-mouthing another artist's work is bad form, but pointing out a legitimate flaw, by providing constructive criticism, it enables the client to truly get the product they want, and, brings the artist's attention to something that they might not have been personally aware of either, so gives them the opportunity to learn and grow as an artist. Again, that's not with relation to any mentioned scenario, just my .2c reaction to the text in the book... TeeJay, I think we will have to agree to disagree then. You make some good points in your statement. However, I think you mistook the quote from the book. I agree with telling it like it is...and not sugar coating things. Yes, people might get their feelings hurt at first....but it could help down the line. What I don't agree with and what I think the watchmaker was saying is.....as an "artist" don't down another artist's work in front of another person. Especially, for financial gain. Honestly, in my profession if I see something wrong I would NEVER down another persons work. Okay I'm rambling now....but my point is....how you say and handle things can make all of the difference. Oh well....to each his own. Aside from the comment I posted from this book....it really is worth the read....especially if you are interested in watchmaking. Alright, I've got watches to buy and a lot of forum threads to catch up on....take care everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 TeeJay, I think we will have to agree to disagree then. You make some good points in your statement. However, I think you mistook the quote from the book. I agree with telling it like it is...and not sugar coating things. Yes, people might get their feelings hurt at first....but it could help down the line. What I don't agree with and what I think the watchmaker was saying is.....as an "artist" don't down another artist's work in front of another person. Especially, for financial gain. Honestly, in my profession if I see something wrong I would NEVER down another persons work. Okay I'm rambling now....but my point is....how you say and handle things can make all of the difference. Oh well....to each his own. Aside from the comment I posted from this book....it really is worth the read....especially if you are interested in watchmaking. Alright, I've got watches to buy and a lot of forum threads to catch up on....take care everyone! That's fair enough, and while it would certainly be unprofessional to put someone's work down just so 'you' can profit by 'correcting the flaw', yes, totally unprofessional and uncool behaviour. If, however, in whatever line of work, if someone has actually made a mistake, then they need picking up on it, as it a ) could have serious consequences if left unchecked, and b ) is something they need to know about so they can learn from the mistake and not repeat it. If the error in their work is unchecked, they would carry on in blissfull ignorance that their work was below par. I suspect we are both holding the same opinion, but thinking about two slightly different implications, hense the disparity in ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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