Watches of War

[TeeJay]

Mine too Teejay and an old post of mine Tool Watches is fitting for this topic

DAMN that Type II is sweeeet!!! I've gotta get me one of those

[FxrAndy]

I started collecting watches with West End Watch Co watche's as they had a military side to them, many were issued to the Indian Army and has swiss works, i will have to take a couple of photos and put them in here. I belive a lot of the early ones made there way back to UK on the wrists of soldiers after service in the near east.

[Chicken Manny]

While I was serving (90's) a standard issue was a Marathon. Many pilots where issued the Marathon Navigators, I think the second or third version. The Navigator watches don't have any special "Mach" powers they just have to stand up to military testing for high G's. That was likely just somebody showing off or Marathon's marketing team at work. Your watch will suffer many more G's knocking into a table then it will see in a jet unless you wack it into something inside the jet or course. They do have special capabilities to deal with rapid changed in pressue and are often also used by Airborne for the same reason.

Almost everybody I worked with used G-Shocks although the current models from Suunto keep popping up with on the guys I come across. I would have loved to have a Suunto when I served but the G-Shocks were as cool as you could find back then.

As far as the "Special Opps" watch, I really doubt that watch will ever see the wrist of anyone in Opps. Well, unless you payed them to wear it. That is the perfect watch for PX Rangers.

[Victoria]

While I was serving (90's) a standard issue was a Marathon. Many pilots where issued the Marathon Navigators, I think the second or third version.

Wow, why does that ring a bell, Chicken Manny...

The Navigator watches don't have any special "Mach" powers they just have to stand up to military testing for high G's. That was likely just somebody showing off or Marathon's marketing team at work.

The former, I think. Pilots, as I don't need to tell you, are the most arrogant people on earth. Boastful goes with the territory. Well, in my experience, these professionals are arrogant, in order:

1) Pilots

2) Medical Doctors

3) Lawyers

4) Professional Tennis players

5) Gen watch forum members

Your watch will suffer many more G's knocking into a table then it will see in a jet unless you wack it into something inside the jet or course. They do have special capabilities to deal with rapid changed in pressue and are often also used by Airborne for the same reason.

Fantastic.

Almost everybody I worked with used G-Shocks although the current models from Suunto keep popping up with on the guys I come across. I would have loved to have a Suunto when I served but the G-Shocks were as cool as you could find back then.

But was it standard issue, or did you guys get your own? That I recall, my friend's husband said he was given it, as part of his course.

This was precisely around the time you served.

As far as the "Special Opps" watch, I really doubt that watch will ever see the wrist of anyone in Opps. Well, unless you payed them to wear it. That is the perfect watch for PX Rangers.

Those people are BRUTAL. Number 6.

[Victoria]

I started collecting watches with West End Watch Co watche's as they had a military side to them, many were issued to the Indian Army and has swiss works, i will have to take a couple of photos and put them in here. I belive a lot of the early ones made there way back to UK on the wrists of soldiers after service in the near east.

Hah.

As an aside, anyone know if the "Swiss Army" watches are indeed worn by the Swiss Armed Forces, officially? Or yet another marketing spin?

'Cause I have a couple named Victorinox Swiss Army. They glow like the dickens.

When I was invited to a paintball party, I arrived wearing one, just in case my Panerai got splattered.

[Desuetude]

Wow, why does that ring a bell, Chicken Manny...

The former, I think. Pilots, as I don't need to tell you, are the most arrogant people on earth. Boastful goes with the territory. Well, in my experience, these professionals are arrogant, in order:

1) Pilots

2) Medical Doctors

3) Lawyers

4) Professional Tennis players

5) Gen watch forum members

Excuse me, I think you're being very unfair. I think that musicians tops the whole list. Kanye West's ego outweighs all of the above 5 combined.

[Chicken Manny]

I paid for my own G-Shock. They would have provided me a Marathon if I wanted it but digital was more useful for my role. If your friend was given a G-shock during a class then Uncle Sam owes me 75 bucks!

You are correct about pilots, especially Navy guys. I've spent quite a bit of time around them. They deserve to be proud but I can tell you I have seen many of them freeze up during action. I tend to think they would be better served by finding a little humility. From my experience the most dangerous and capable guys in the room are also the least likely to boast.

[Victoria]

Excuse me, I think you're being very unfair. I think that musicians tops the whole list. Kanye West's ego outweighs all of the above 5 combined.

Musicians are smelly and totally raunchy, as well as socially awkward. They would be geeks if they hadn't pounced on the fact that chicks dig nice sounds.

Oh. Number 7: Librarians.

[Victoria]

I paid for my own G-Shock. They would have provided me a Marathon if I wanted it but digital was more useful for my role. If your friend was given a G-shock during a class then Uncle Sam owes me 75 bucks!

Yeah, but that's not factoring in all the PX cigarette cartons you sold to your neighbours for a three dollar markup.

(Yes, I am absolutely sure he said he got it as part of the course. NOW, did he mean Uncle Sam gave it to him? Legalistic splicing, but it's been 10 years...wow, 10 years...since last I saw them, so who knows)

You are correct about pilots, especially Navy guys.

YES. My God, wow. I thought Top Gun was total BS until I went to Pensacola.

No one in my family is in the RAF (because in Britain, RAF is kinda ruff. It has lost it's glamour since WWII), so I had no direct experience with aviators. But damn.

OTOH, my friend's husband was the sweetest, most upstanding, most INTEGRAL person you could've met. And one after the other, all his Air Force colleagues were like that. They glow goodness...

Whilst being arrogant, of course.

I've spent quite a bit of time around them. They deserve to be proud but I can tell you I have seen many of them freeze up during action. I tend to think they would be better served by finding a little humility. From my experience the most dangerous and capable guys in the room are also the least likely to boast.

Also my experience with Army and Navy chaps.

BTW, my cousin up top was a roguish boy -- always teasing me, a bit on the cruel side, like British males delight in being (especially around women), but a bit of a noodle characterwise.

Next time I saw him, it was like he was now made of concrete. Though teasing as ever, it was tempered with world-weariness.

I asked him about it, and I'll never forget his reply: War is hell. But slavery is worse.

[BobM]

I remember when I went into the AirForce ... Let's see ... that would have been in 1956. I went into navigator training. Actually, I became an Electronic Countermeasures Officer. That was a speciality within the classification of Navigator. Anyway, we were issued watches. Navigators required good watches which could be "hacked" to the precise time, and we would use the time in our calculations of celestial navigation.

I remember that watch. It was a simple round, stainless case with a plain blue dial (what other color for the Air Force?) ... no date, anything like that. It had a simple blue nylon band that laced through the band pins on each side of the case and under the case ... with a plain silver colored buckle.

I think that was the first watch I ever "owned". I was really very proud of that watch. To this day, I like watches with a blue face and I think that is the reason why. (Hmmmmm .... I also like watches with a siver dial .... or a black dial ... or a ....)

[Desuetude]

I tend to think they would be better served by finding a little humility. From my experience the most dangerous and capable guys in the room are also the least likely to boast.

That holds true in just about any walk of life. Those who are truly successful/capable let their actions speak for themselves.

[Victoria]

That holds true in just about any walk of life. Those who are truly successful/capable let their actions speak for themselves.

I haven't found that to be the case in life.

Haven't you seen people who are tough as nails, but who are boasts, bullies, and just plain...well, assholes?

Think of any TOP professional athlete (not the average one, like Beckham), and I can only think of Sir Don Bradman, Jack Niklaus, and Wayne Gretzky, who are humble people. The rest, assholes.

Lance Armstrong. A-hole.

Michael Jordan. A-hole.

Tiger Woods. A-hole.

The same is true of businessmen (indeed, especially businessmen), and professionals. There are rare exceptions, like my own father, and probably a few on this forum, but I've noticed that the most aggressive men go ahead.

And humility and aggression rarely go hand-in-hand, IMHO.

EDIT: To make this a little "on-topic" given the thread, let me just say that naval aviators, navigators, pilots, etc. HAVE to be arrogant. Imagine doing what they do, hurtling thousands of miles into the atmosphere, plastering one's vital organs against one's ribcage, dropping bombs, sniping other planes, and NOT be arrogant. It's impossible. Or at least, highly unlikely.

BTW, my friend's husband's brother was in the NASA astronaut programme. OMG, major major a-hole. Astronauts must be like pilots, squared.

[ryyannon]

You think too much, Miss Barrett.

We're watching you.

[Victoria]

You think too much, Miss Barrett.

We're watching you.

Do they include dread pirate Davy Jones?

[TeeJay]

I haven't found that to be the case in life.

Haven't you seen people who are tough as nails, but who are boasts, bullies, and just plain...well, assholes?

Think of any TOP professional athlete (not the average one, like Beckham), and I can only think of Sir Don Bradman, Jack Niklaus, and Wayne Gretzky, who are humble people. The rest, assholes.

Lance Armstrong. A-hole.

Michael Jordan. A-hole.

Tiger Woods. A-hole.

The same is true of businessmen (indeed, especially businessmen), and professionals. There are rare exceptions, like my own father, and probably a few on this forum, but I've noticed that the most aggressive men go ahead.

And humility and aggression rarely go hand-in-hand, IMHO.

It's always been my experience that the worst bullies are actually the most inadequate and plagued by self-doubt. I can understand the attitude of millitary pilots as they, by the nature of their occupation, must be able to do their job, and get people to follow their orders without question. Now, while I'd be the first to admit, a more easygoing approach does tend to get better responses from 'underlings', there are times, particularly in the millitary, where an order must be followed precicely and immediately. If someone where to feel that their every command would be second-guessed, or that subordinates felt that they could question orders, they would be ineffective in commanding those beneath them. That's not an attempt to excuse such attitudes, just an opinion on why it is necessary that they have them, and, when someone is trained to have such a persona, it can be very hard to 'switch off'... Something else which contributes to (in any field) the '[censored] factor', is the chips some people have on their shoulders. Those who feel that they 'dragged themselves up by their bootstraps', and struggled as 'the outsider' so are morally superior to the 'upper-class numpties' who had success handed to them, almost by birthright, absolute and utter assholes. Nothing worse than a self-righteous prig with a chip on their shoulder about 'their roots'. And back to the millitary watches...

[Victoria]

It's always been my experience that the worst bullies are actually the most inadequate and plagued by self-doubt. I can understand the attitude of millitary pilots as they, by the nature of their occupation, must be able to do their job, and get people to follow their orders without question. Now, while I'd be the first to admit, a more easygoing approach does tend to get better responses from 'underlings',

Is that really true, TeeJay? Really true?

Another personal example. You know I'm a kind person. I'm like my father -- reserved, frosty, but not nasty. We have that middle-class sensitivity towards others both above and below us: kindness and consideration to all those who serve us.

But my mother is very dismissive of people under her, though always polite, never vulgar, never losing her cool.

Still, it shows, and it makes both of us cringe, because her attitude towards waiters, drivers, and servers in general is "short" and without affection. Need I tell you, she comes from a better social background than my father.

So guess which of us get the best results from "underlings"? She does. Always. They suck up to her like you have no idea. Meanwhile, dad and I, with our "please, thank you very much, and I appreciate that"s get the shaft. She is certainly not the only person I've seen like that, either.

Especially the closer you get to the East, the more they think you're weak if you're polite to those "beneath" you.

(BTW, I'm exaggerating about being kind. I have her German iron inside me too. I'm just a bit of an hypocrite and don't want to admit I'm tough as nails)

there are times, particularly in the millitary, where an order must be followed precicely and immediately. If someone where to feel that their every command would be second-guessed, or that subordinates felt that they could question orders, they would be ineffective in commanding those beneath them. That's not an attempt to excuse such attitudes, just an opinion on why it is necessary that they have them, and, when someone is trained to have such a persona, it can be very hard to 'switch off'... Something else which contributes to (in any field) the '[censored] factor', is the chips some people have on their shoulders. Those who feel that they 'dragged themselves up by their bootstraps', and struggled as 'the outsider' so are morally superior to the 'upper-class numpties' who had success handed to them, almost by birthright, absolute and utter assholes. Nothing worse than a self-righteous prig with a chip on their shoulder about 'their roots'. And back to the millitary watches...

Heh, I agree about that.

But often I've wondered how it would've been like to have a chip on my shoulder. I notice people like that often succeed, or die trying. Very sad people though.

Yes, back to military watches.

Another site! From Spain, once again, but a treasure trove of info!

http://www.watchoo.es/

Specifically:

http://www.watchoo.es/artikel_kat_64_0_0_r...jes_missin.html

[Victoria]

Smith & Wesson watch.

Smith & Wesson Military Watch Black SWW1464BLACK

http://www.watchesgb.com/c/sw_military_watch/

* 3 INTERCHANGEABLE, STURDY REINFORCED CANVAS BANDS

* MILITARY TIME INSET

* DATE WINDOW

* WATER RESISTANT

* LUMINOUS HOUR/MINUTE HANDS

* PRECISION QUARTZ JAPANESE MOVEMENT

Most interestingly:

[TeeJay]

Is that really true, TeeJay? Really true?

Another personal example. You know I'm a kind person. I'm like my father -- reserved, frosty, but not nasty. We have that middle-class sensitivity towards others both above and below us: kindness and consideration to all those who serve us.

But my mother is very dismissive of people under her, though always polite, never vulgar, never losing her cool.

Still, it shows, and it makes both of us cringe, because her attitude towards waiters, drivers, and servers in general is "short" and without affection. Need I tell you, she comes from a better social background than my father.

So guess which of us get the best results from "underlings"? She does. Always. They suck up to her like you have no idea. Meanwhile, dad and I, with our "please, thank you very much, and I appreciate that"s get the shaft. She is certainly not the only person I've seen like that, either.

Especially the closer you get the East, the more they think you're weak if you're polite to those "beneath" you.

(BTW, I'm exaggerating about being kind. I have her German iron inside me too. I'm just a bit of an hypocrite and don't want to admit I'm tough as nails)

I know the kind of thing you mean, but I was refering more to general business/millitary attitudes, rather than dismissive of 'domestics'. When I've been a manager, I've always found people more willing to do as I ask when I do so politely and reasonably, rather than barking orders at them, that just leads to resentment... While I wouldn't dream of disputing the treatment your mother gets from 'servers', over yourself or your father, I would say that when anyone takes such an attitude with me, I don't stand for it. Rather the reverse, infact I'd like to think I'm an easy going person, and, as a Libra (a very typical Libra male) I'm not someone who thrives on conflict. But. I also have my pride, and have never 'bowed and scraped' to anyone. In that sense, I admit, I have a very 'cut your nose off to spite your face' attitude, and would rather lose a contract than have someone speak down to me, but, and admittedly, the attitudes between Americans and the English are quite different, I've always found that when I stand up to people who behaved in that way, it 'off-balances' them, and I wind up getting way better treatment from them, than the other way around. I'd quite agree about the politeness being taken for weakness attitude. The point I was really trying to make, was that in the millitary, someone cannot afford to have their orders questioned, so a part of their training, would include imparting the "I'm right" attitude when in command, and the "Yes Sir!" attitude when subordinate

Heh, I agree about that.

But often I've wondered how it would've been like to have a chip on my shoulder. I notice people like that often succeed, or die trying. Very sad people though.

I guess it depends on the breaks life gives people which determine those who succeed from those who die trying. While I haven't really got a concrete opinion on the 'heredity vs environment' debate, I would say that environment plays a huge part in succeeding, ie knowing the right people to get an idea properly listened to. I've got a couple of ideas floating about in my head which I'm sure I could patent, but it's just a case of putting them into practice... My environment, although not impeding the work I do, does nothing to help with those other things which could potentially be huge As for bullies, no matter how successful they become, at the core, they will always be inadequates who feel their only way to succeed is by belittling others, and that self-loathing and inadequacy is probably more pathetic than their actions...

Yes, back to military watches.

Another site! From Spain, once again, but a treasure trove of info!

http://www.watchoo.es/

"It's coming right for us!!!"

Another watch, which I feel deserves a mention, is the S&W SWAT 45. I'm not sure if it's actually 'issued', but it certainly has 'the look'

[TeeJay]

Smith & Wesson watch.

Smith & Wesson Military Watch Black SWW1464BLACK

http://www.watchesgb.com/c/sw_military_watch/

* 3 INTERCHANGEABLE, STURDY REINFORCED CANVAS BANDS

* MILITARY TIME INSET

* DATE WINDOW

* WATER RESISTANT

* LUMINOUS HOUR/MINUTE HANDS

* PRECISION QUARTZ JAPANESE MOVEMENT

Most interestingly:

[Victoria]

I'm liking that

I love a good bargain!

With regards the lume, although I can't say for sure, I'd guess that a luminous dial is less noticeable to 'the enemy' than someone flicking on a torch to check the time as it's a constant level of illumination, and, in all honesty, the initial glow disipates pretty quickly to a more muted glow. Doesn't look like much to start with, but say you look at it after a while, it's still noticeable

Yes, and of course, it's good for underwater activity, for which watches like Panerai were meant.

SPEAKING OF WHICH!

I have to thank you about the tip of the LED torch to activate the lume, in that other thread. Bought this on *bay, arrived just now.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/streamlight-4a...lashlights.html

Yellow/White LED one. $30, shipped.

And you were absolutely right, TeeJay. THE LUME COMES OUT FANTASTIC. This is putting the torch on each watch no more than 5-10 seconds each.

DSN Fiddy

DSN PAM 112

What a difference from my first lume shot, under natural sunlight!

Can you imagine if I place it on the watches for 30 minutes??

THANKS for the tip, guys! :thumbsupsmileyanim:

@TeeJay below: Oh GREAT! Now he tells me! ...will buy another. Might use my mother's tanning bed though, and save a bob or too. Out for the night, ciao and thanks!

[TeeJay]

I love a good bargain!

Same here For someone who loves spending money, I can be a real Scrooge at times, and never spend a penny more than I actually have to

Yes, and of course, it's good for underwater activity, for which watches like Panerai were meant.

Absolutely. I took the strap off my 111h earlier and dunked it in a sink of water...

No bubbles

It shall be accompanying me on holiday in November, once suitably outfitted with a nicely water-proof SS bracelet

SPEAKING OF WHICH!

I have to thank you about the tip of the LED torch to activate the lume, in that other thread. Bought this on *bay, arrived just now.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/streamlight-4a...lashlights.html

$30, shipped.

And you were absolutely right, TeeJay. THE LUME COMES OUT FANTASTIC. This is putting the torch on each watch no more than 5-10 seconds each.

DSN Fiddy

DSN PAM 112

What a difference from my first lume shot, under natural sunlight!

THANKS for the tip, guys! :thumbsupsmileyanim:

Fantastic results To go one further from LED, if you use a UV LED, that gives AWESOME results

Charging the lume:

Lume Shot:

Edited September 22, 2007 by TeeJay

[tmg]

DAMN that Type II is sweeeet!!! I've gotta get me one of those

Check out ebay item #180160142598, it's more accurate than mine TJ and comes with an ETA in it.

[TeeJay]

Check out ebay item #180160142598, it's more accurate than mine TJ and comes with an ETA in it.

Thanks for the link Sadly, it's a bit more spare cash than I have spare, as I've got to buy two of my guinea pigs a new hutch today... If it wasn't for that, I'd be bidding on that beauty for sure

[Guest TTK]

Absolutely. I took the strap off my 111h earlier and dunked it in a sink of water...

No bubbles

.....and that's enough to convince you that it's water resistant....( send your findings to the R&D departments of all the major watch companies and claim a percentage of the money they will save in investing in WP testers....you'll clean up ).....!

Do you have any idea of the pressure that is exerted on a watch simply by stroking your hand thru' water at surface level......above water normal atmospheric pressure is 14.7 PSI...or 1BAR......the 'test' you've done is an unpressurised test at 14.7PSI....and a static test.....the moment you put your wrist underwater.....you increase the pressure....( make a wave with your hand and feel the pressure).....if you dive to 33ft....your now at 2x times normal atmospheric pressure....29.4PSI..2BAR.......and that's 'static' pressure.....with forward and backward motion you move onto 'dynamic' pressure and that can exert an additiional force of approx 3BAR..... which is considerable pressure.....way more than the 'static' non-test that you've carried out.

May I remind everyone that these are REPLICA items.....they are designed to cosmetically replicate the original.....not do the job that the original was DESIGNED to do....!

[TeeJay]

.....and that's enough to convince you that it's water resistant....( send your findings to the R&D departments of all the major watch companies and claim a percentage of the money they will save in investing in WP testers....you'll clean up ).....!

Do you have any idea of the pressure that is exerted on a watch simply by stroking your hand thru' water at surface level......above water normal atmospheric pressure is 14.7 PSI...or 1BAR......the 'test' you've done is an unpressurised test at 14.7PSI....and a static test.....the moment you put your wrist underwater.....you increase the pressure....( make a wave with your hand and feel the pressure).....if you dive to 33ft....your now at 2x times normal atmospheric pressure....29.4PSI..2BAR.......and that's 'static' pressure.....with forward and backward motion you move onto 'dynamic' pressure and that can exert an additiional force of approx 3BAR..... which is considerable pressure.....way more than the 'static' non-test that you've carried out.

May I remind everyone that these are REPLICA items.....they are designed to cosmetically replicate the original.....not do the job that the original was DESIGNED to do....!

It's enough that I won't [censored] my pants if the watch accidentally gets wet I would take the watch to be pressure tested, but the person I use is so backed up with work, that they wouldn't get it back in time before I go away. As far as I can tell, the watch has a rubber seal just beneath the crown, and the back is too tightly screwed down to be moved by thumbs. I've bought watches from the same dealer which where also water resistant 'out of the box', and, following the results of my test, I am prepared to give this one the benefit of the doubt. Besides, so what if it does flood? As you point out, it's a rep. I'll just buy a new one, and problem solved, and yes, I am well aware of how depth and pressure is applied to water resistance, thankyou.

Edited September 23, 2007 by TeeJay