what's the meaning of the IWC Probus Scafusia motto and fish symbol?

[erwinner]

I did my research here and in google, but could not find more than the IWC claim:

IWC's motto is "Probus Scafusia", meaning "good, solid craftsmanship from Schaffhausen" and was established in 1903 as the "Official Motto."

There must be more history behind this, I guess? And what about the fish symbol? I only know this from the bumper sticker on a lot of religous owned cars ;-)

[cornerstone]

The fish symbol means water resistant

Like a true WIS, I forget why Christians use it. Because they're also water resistant....? (Kidding!)

[Centurion]

Only thing i know about the fish symbol, is that in my IWC 2007 book which i received from the net, the fish symbol stands for waterproof. May not be any help for you or any other on this forum, but it's atleast my .02 cents.

[Seadweller4000]

Probus Scafusia - IWC's famous quality seal has been itroduced in 1903 by Johannes Rauschenbach-Schenk. It symbolizes the outstanding reputation for precise and robust timekeeping instruments, which has been known far beyond the swiss borders. In overseas, as well as at home, people rely on the craftmanship from Schaffhausen. The slogan "IWC - Bew

[Chronus]

The fish symbol means water resistant

Like a true WIS, I forget why Christians use it. Because they're also water resistant....? (Kidding!)

The fish symbol, Ichthys (Greek acronym), was used by christians near the beginning to identify themselves to other christians when their then-heathen religion was frowned upon by the powers of the day. It probably stems from Jesus's disciples being fishermen as well as other reasons. Batman must be religious - "Holy mackerel!" Incidentally, the fish symbol dated back to ancient religions as well.

The symbol that is popular now, the cross, stemmed from the Egyptian ankh. This was not a christian symbol for around 2-3 centuries I think. There are strong possibilites that a Jesus was not hung on a cross. The ancient Greek word for cross back when the bible was written actually meant stake. Either way, they believe he was killed. The cross obviously makes a far better symbol than a stake.

Damn(!), I know too much about religions, and believe in none!

Edited November 4, 2007 by Chronus

[ratchpot]

Sounds fishy to me...

[Victoria]

The fish symbol, Ichthys (Greek acronym), was used by christians near the beginning to identify themselves to other christians when their then-heathen religion was frowned upon by the powers of the day. It probably stems from Jesus's disciples being fishermen as well as other reasons. Batman must be religious - "Holy mackerel!" Incidentally, the fish symbol dated back to ancient religions as well.

EXACTLY. I was going to write everything thusly, except the Batman thing which was genius.

BTW, it's not JUST that his Disciples were fishermen. It's that Jesus Christ was a fisher of men. We are his fish, as Christians.

Though we don't now have them on our cars, I too had the fish symbol on my car to denote my active Roman Catholicism.

The symbol that is popular now, the cross, stemmed from the Egyptian ankh. This was not a christian symbol for around 2-3 centuries I think. There are strong possibilites that a Jesus was not hung on a cross.

To some people, there are strong possibilities Jesus didn't exist. We all have agendas.

The ancient Greek word for cross back when the bible was written actually meant stake. Either way, they believe he was killed. The cross obviously makes a far better symbol than a stake.

Yes, and in the original Hebrew the commandment we have translated as "Thou shalt not kill" is really "Thou shalt not murder", a very different meaning indeed.

Damn(!), I know too much about religions, and believe in none!

Better to know, and not to believe, than not to know and still talk.

[erwinner]

thanks all... good to know I'm not making any unwanted claims by wearing my GST loud and proud!

Although I guess it's not that smart to actually mistake the fish symbol on the crown by submersing the rep under water without testing it at first ;-)

[Chronus]

Better to know, and not to believe, than not to know and still talk.

i just cannot believe in something so blindly like so many people. I haven't found the answers that would point me in the direction of such a life-consuming decision as active participation in religion. And I'm too lazy

Still, interesting stories and roots of where many things that are held as "gospel" came from.

[AMK000]

@vbarret and Chronus:

Since you like some much History of Religion (.... it's also one of my favorite subjects) , .... here is a good reading.

http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/fish.htm

Note: For those who will spend time to read the entire page.

I agree with the explanation of

[Chronus]

@vbarret and Chronus:

Since you like some much History of Religion (.... it's also one of my favorite subjects) , .... here is a good reading.

http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/fish.htm

Note: For those who will spend time to read the entire page.

I agree with the explanation of

[Victoria]

I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but it's possible that there could be other significance to it stemming from India, as many symbols have done (such as the bastardi2ed swast1ka by the Nazis - originally it was used for luck and goodwill, even in Europe!).

As you say bastardised. The original swastika symbol is extremely ancient, mostly tied with Aryan culture (in the true, Indian sense of the word), which Amerindian cultures also revered.

This is a copy of a Navajo swastika:

When I went to Russia, and was given a tour of the old Winter Palace, present-day Hermitage, the tour guide pointed out the swastika as etched on a window by the late Tsarina Alexandra Feodorovna. She did it with her diamond ring.

Next to the swastika she put her initials AF and the date (sometime in 1912).

As we filed out to the next room, I overheard two British couples saying, "Of course, they were Nazis, but so early?".

Lord give me strength...

There is some possibility that Jesus travelled to India during the "lost years" where nothing is documented.

And there is some possibility that he went to Greece (to Mount Athos), too...

And indeed, to England...

You may know that one of our suggested national anthems, to replace God Save the Queen, is Jerusalem. Here are the first two stanzas, which suggest Our Lord, Jesus Christ, travelled to England:

"And did those feet in ancient time

Walk upon England's mountains green?

And was the holy Lamb of God

On England's pleasant pastures seen?

And did the Countenance Divine

Shine forth upon our clouded hills?

And was Jerusalem builded here

Among these dark Satanic Mills?"

This is also the basis for some conspiracy theories, of ancient origin, so I have personally discounted this in my mind, but...

...who can know for certain.

There have been documentation of a figure fitting the description being found in buddhist temples, including some that had very little contact with the outside world and little knowledge of worldwide religions. If he was indeed influenced by Buddhism, it explains the "love thy neighbour" stance that appears. A big contrast from the smiting god that is in the Old Testament.

Jahweh is an idea. Jesus was Man. But in many ways, the figure of Jesus was more Godly, in the kind, gentle sense of the word.

Anyway, back to IWC! I have a question about underwater watches.

[MK08]

Wow some whimsical and fanciful idea's floating around out there