Victoria Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 V and VB - sorry but I still think you're wrong about the Fiddy's value. I stand by my LV Sub analogy, everybody wanted a piece of the LE 30th Anniversary Sub and many bought several to safe-queen away for a few years. Now you can't give them away and I know of one well-known vintage dealer who gets calls every week offering him LVs. I agree that it's not "worth" $20,000, not sure why you think I think that. All I said is that stuff is worth whatever people think it's worth, from geeky Star Wars collectors to snobby PAM collectors. There is a glaring flaw with your analysis above, though. Panerai are the newest kid on the cult watch bloc. In many ways, they superceded the Rolex marque (so closely intertwined historically anyway) with niche collectors. Of course, vintage Rolex hobbyists will scream, yell, and say that's pish, but by and large, I think people will agree. Thus, the Panerai marque is on the way UP and has been since 2000, whereas Rolex is stable -- always classic, always covetted, but a little overdone, OTT, and too repped. New money without style or knowledge wants to impress everyone. New money with style and knowledge wants to impress just a select number of people. That's why loads of people would rather buy a scuffed up Rolex that looks like it's come out of a Blitz shelter, than a shiny new LV Sub. As for the Fiddy, what price desire? At the moment, 20k. If Defacto had taken the leap earlier, he might be 11k the richer today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RageRover Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 True, its hard to say what something is "worth." All depends on the individual. IMHO, $1000 is too much for a Panerai. But thats my $0.02. Whats "under the hood" (i.e. the movement) is the most important factor me. $20k for a nice case with a $75 ETA movement?!? I thought a lot of Rolexes (sp?) were over priced as well, but at least Rolex produced most of their own movements. Thats why I love my Seikos and why I think they are the best value in the world. Take the "Black Monster" everything, including the crystal ("hardlex") and even some of the lubricants are made in house. And all for $150.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 It is interesting indeed how people here are arguing about a watch that at present is sold out. There is no market for a 127 Panerai as it is not produced and if it is inflated, from it's original $8500.00 price to $20,000. , that is due to the secondary, and following resale markets. Anyone paying 20,000 is buying a used watch that has an established collectibility and will always be priced at what supply and demand dictates. There is no supply anymore people, so the price can and will go through the roof. Welcome to the world of rare collectibles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBoy Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 First off - as the owner of a GEN 127 - let me say: HURRAAAHHHHH!!!! Ok - IF the 127 was actually selling for $20K - I would be very happy - even if I never plan to sell mine. But the $20K advertised price is just that - an ADVERTISED price. These watches are realistically selling in the $14K-$16K range at this time. That's still a lot of money for a watch that has less than $300 worth of materials in it - right? But that's the nature of luxury goods. They are NEVER worth the sum of their parts. Do you think if you buy a car that costs over $100,000 that the materials used in it are any better than a car costing $10,000? To a certain degree - YES. But not 10 times as much. You are paying for the NAME and that's about it. Still - $20,000 for a watch which there are less than 2,000 in the WORLD to me is a pretty good deal. And for anyone that thinks a rep is just as good as the real thing - all I can say is - a fake is a fake is a fake. Those that can afford it understand what it's all about. Those that don't - buy copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor_yaffle1 Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Great to see the Scottish 'P' word being used in a relativley intelligent discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjlamp Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 First off - as the owner of a GEN 127 - let me say: HURRAAAHHHHH!!!! Ok - IF the 127 was actually selling for $20K - I would be very happy - even if I never plan to sell mine. But the $20K advertised price is just that - an ADVERTISED price. These watches are realistically selling in the $14K-$16K range at this time. That's still a lot of money for a watch that has less than $300 worth of materials in it - right? But that's the nature of luxury goods. They are NEVER worth the sum of their parts. Do you think if you buy a car that costs over $100,000 that the materials used in it are any better than a car costing $10,000? To a certain degree - YES. But not 10 times as much. You are paying for the NAME and that's about it. Still - $20,000 for a watch which there are less than 2,000 in the WORLD to me is a pretty good deal. And for anyone that thinks a rep is just as good as the real thing - all I can say is - a fake is a fake is a fake. Those that can afford it understand what it's all about. Those that don't - buy copies. Just because you said it. No one will insist that a fake is a real. But many will say that a replica is just that. A copy of a model. By using words correctly ,you can even say that, the first item that is made is the original.Every thing after that, is a replica of it. If this is acceptable,there is no reason to argue for fake and reals. A Chinese computer operated lathe is not beter or worse than a Swiss or an American one. Therefore,personally I don't care too much if my replica,if it is a replica and not a bad model, is made in China or Italy or Swiss. Come to watches, the exclusivity surely demands OTT prices,but that doesn't mean value. There is no measures for price. If your pocket carries the monies there you go.(My pocket does not) Enjoy your choices. , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie7s Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 I am amazed at just how close the Davidsen version is to the gen. I dont have the $$$ for the gen and if I did, I dont know if I would spend $20k for it. It really is a beautiful watch but, c'mon...$20k is a lot of dough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 The PAM 127, the so-called Fiddy, has apparently reached the USD 20,000 level in gen forum sales areas. The Fidestro (as some people cheekily call the PAM 217, its lefty brother) is still around 11-12k. What a difference a crown guard side makes, eh? There is something almost religious about that picture... Fantastic artwork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 First off - as the owner of a GEN 127 - let me say: HURRAAAHHHHH!!!! Ok - IF the 127 was actually selling for $20K - I would be very happy - even if I never plan to sell mine. But the $20K advertised price is just that - an ADVERTISED price. These watches are realistically selling in the $14K-$16K range at this time. That's still a lot of money for a watch that has less than $300 worth of materials in it - right? But that's the nature of luxury goods. They are NEVER worth the sum of their parts. Do you think if you buy a car that costs over $100,000 that the materials used in it are any better than a car costing $10,000? To a certain degree - YES. But not 10 times as much. You are paying for the NAME and that's about it. Still - $20,000 for a watch which there are less than 2,000 in the WORLD to me is a pretty good deal. And for anyone that thinks a rep is just as good as the real thing - all I can say is - a fake is a fake is a fake. Those that can afford it understand what it's all about. Those that don't - buy copies. I agree with everything you wrote apart from the boldened part. As you say, it's the nature of luxury goods. They are never worth the sum of their parts, but to be honest, someone doesn't need to have the budget to afford them to understand that fundemental fact. Infact, I'd go so far as to say the complete reverse, and it's the people who can afford to spank their cash on those purchases who are less likely to understand, and are simply slaves to consumerism and brand-name worship, rather than seeing the artificial inflation of those items. Other than that difference of opinion, top post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphe Posted November 14, 2007 Report Share Posted November 14, 2007 High valued or not... I still dislike the gawdy gold hands. I think I'd stick with the Luminors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 I have found a for sale listing for the fiddy priced at 12.000$ on another forum... check.. hxxp://www.network54.com/Forum/246582/message/1194765164/FS-+Panerai+127+LNIB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasng Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 $20K is simply absurd. But again, as long as there's someone willing to pay that price, then it's worth that price. NO watch is ever "worth" what it is by the value of its materials, it's worth what people will pay, hence that is why there's discounting involved, the market determines these conditions. I had the chance to buy one of these last year at $8K and I balked at that price, and it's even worse now. Some of the APs are going insane as well, I bought a JPM Offshore for $21K 1.5 years ago and now it's worth almost $45K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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